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Behaviour Not Reducing Solo/SWF Gap



  • oxygenoxygen Member Posts: 1,248

    Would be a complete waste of time and resources as it would just annoy and confuse casual players and people that really want to tryhard could just circumvent it by lobby dodging until they get eachother as solos. Not even that hard if they are geographically and rank-wise close to eachother.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 909

    They obviously care about the fanbase or they'd just let the game die out.


  • CatHound22CatHound22 Member Posts: 15

    Putting a totem counter in the game would make all Hex perks worthless.

  • PrincessPoopPrincessPoop Member Posts: 783

    A totem counter would literally have zero effect on every hex perk except for NOED. And that would be arguably a healthy change.

  • GravnosGravnos Member Posts: 70

    My friends and I often play Kill Your Friends, all 5 of us in the same Discord and it is amazing. IMO the answer to this isn't in perks or in-game balance but about mechanically leveling things out in a fun way. It's the most afraid we ever get in the game because the killer hears you.

    Put in game voice PROXIMITY chat in the game (Like Friday the 13th has). However, make it so the killers and survivors don't understand each other.

    When a survivor talks, the killer hears The Entity twist their words giving away the survivors direction.

    When the killer talks, the survivors hear The Killer road/scream/taunt/random whatever sounds per killer.

    SURVIVORS: Would you like to bait the Killer away from your injured friend by yelling at a killer to chase you instead? Wouldn't it fun to actually hold your breath while you crouch around? Maybe you're feeling brave while hiding and just as the killer is about to leave, you let out a quick clue to find you and waste their time more?

    KILLERS: Tired of flashlight clicking? How about giving new use to perks dealing with sound like Stridor? Would you like to say whatever you want to survivors and know they're hearing your terrifying roars of their impending doom?

    BUSINESS: More DLC items! Add new roars/taunts/whatever. Hell you could even do actual voice lines for the characters you could activate with a button like emoting if you want to! (On a cooldown, please!)

    Sure SWF could stay in Discord, but this lets all games be SWF so all survivors can share knowledge based on proximity. It gives them tools to help their friends and a feeling of fear. Killers get all kinds of new clues to find their prey.

  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Member Posts: 636

    They use perks and new killers to 'fix' problems so they don't have to apply remedies to the core game. So they can't add more built-in secondary objectives, lengthen matches or shorten chases, because then Pig using Ruin would be objectively too-powerful, ergo that's the whole reason they designed the Pig and Ruin in that way.

    You can't have a totem counter if there's a perk for it; what would be the point of the perk then? They reduced the time it takes to break pallets, so Brutal Strength HAD to be nerfed in order for it to have the same overall effect on gameplay. They wanted to incentivise killers to leave the hook, but made it cost a perk-slot whilst survivors have the aura-read for hooks by default.

    The devs once got rid of the killers aura-read for used-hooks and claimed it was a bug, before later saying it was intentional, then later 'fixing' it under bug-fixes in the patch-notes. We never found out which version was true. They obviously experiment, watch the backlash and then make decisions based on the reaction.

    We're having to guess at their methods though, because they're not open about anything.

  • ChickenchaserChickenchaser Member Posts: 391

    Casuals are already annoyed, and confused. No change there. And if the tryhards want to lobby dodge so they can have an unfair advantage let them. it would just make them pathetic losers. And it would spare a lot of killers from dealing with toxic SWF groups. If they dodge even one lobby that's at least one killer saved.

  • kTrmnatrkTrmnatr Member Posts: 1

    Here's a thought: how about giving the killer a small movement speed boost when going against SWF. I would suggest this sort of implementation: for each survivor in a group beyond the first, the Entity draws on their power of friendship (or whatever lore dressing you need) and channels it to the killer as a 1% speed boost. So the possible combos would be 0% if all solo queue, 1% if 2 swf and 2 solo queue, 2% if 3 swf and 1 solo queue OR 2 swf groups of 2, and 3% if all are in the same SWF group. Simple, clean, doesn't shake up core gameplay too much.

  • knellknell Member Posts: 461

    Although I would like the discussion to remain on 'the direction that Behaviour decided to take in regards to SWF imbalance' (buffing solos to SWF level, then balancing killers to it) and their action (or the lack thereof) taken so far, I would like to quickly address something that has been brought up several times.

    That is, why they don't just nerf SWFs instead of buffing Solos, given how 1. SWF seems to be the problem, and 2. killers already seem to be mostly balanced for solo players.

    The reason, I believe, is mainly due to the fact that '(hidden) information' can't be taken away from SWF, but information can (ideally) be given to solos. The main advantage that SWF have over Solo players is that they can obtain information through communicating (and coordinating) with each other instead of gaining that info through the actual game. And 'information' itself can't be taken away (nerfed) from SWF. So you have to nerf them in some other respect - aka find a substitute nerf-object. However, since you are not dealing with the actual source of the problem (information), even if suitable 'nerf' replacements can be found for the current state of the game, as new contents (new killers, perks, maps, etc.) are added over time, they may not continue to have the same effect as they originally did, and may have to be changed again and again.

    However, buffing Solos are different, in that they can actually add 'information' that SWF already has by adding visual cues to the UI. Since they are directly adding 'information' to solo players instead of some other aspect, ideally, it shouldn't become as much as a problem over time. Even this isn't foolproof, and I can already foresee several problems with this direction, but my suspicion is that this was the reason for their decision.


    If folks would like to discuss about this topic further, please create a new thread for it - although it is certainly important to talk about other ways developers could have better implemented a solution for the SWF imbalance, I would like this thread to remain on topic about what the developers have already decided to do, and what they have done so far about it after three+ years.

  • DamarusDamarus Member Posts: 136

    @knell They are still considering about the totem counter, even though it has been "brought up many times" (including by myself), because killer mains are crying about it. Or, to better put it, incompetent cheap killer mains who pick NOED. About Kindred, even though it would only be fair to have all SWF info available to solo players, having a perk that shows you the exact position of the killer by his aura would be too much. But, on the other hand, Kindred only shows killers who are within a certain radius from the hooked guy, since they are camping. That would effectively reduce camping, and I would love that.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 909

    If you have a problem with NOED you are bad and should learn to play

  • DamarusDamarus Member Posts: 136

    No, pal, it is the other way around, actually. Killers who need to bring NOED in order to achieve something they could not do for the whole duration of the match are not only bad but should go back to another kid's effortless game, like Fortnite. Enough of NOED advocates, NOED doesn't mean you are good, you are just as bad as any survivor picking DS is. Though the ideas you posted before aren't that bad. Means you have SOME sense right there. Just not that much to understand how pathetic NOED is. Oh, and by the way, I am only one. There have been times when I cleansed 4/5 totems, others when I could cleanse NOED right when it popped. Doesn't make it any good of a perk anyway. Other survivors just seem not to care about totems, not even now. We're done here. Sayonara.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 909

    No, you are definitely bad at the game and need to learn how to do totems

    NOED is fine

  • DamarusDamarus Member Posts: 136

    As you wish, folk, we'll keep thinking differently. Only one of is right though, and you are not that one. The fact alone you are defending NOED already speaks for itself. Have fun being bad, friend ;)

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,512

    Baseline Kindred is definitely NOT too powerful and it reinforces all the ideas they have with game design. It fights camping and encourages people to play together. I'd even settle for a weaker version as long as the killer's aura is shown at 16m or lower.

    A totem counter is also not too powerful if they increase the number of totems, which they should do imo. 8 would be fine.

    I believe they're overthinking this. They just need to give solos more info. That's all. I don't think it's that hard to do.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,512

    And NOED is both bad design AND a bad perk can't believe we're having this debate in 2019

  • GenSim12345GenSim12345 Member Posts: 182

    I can't belive people are defending NOED either, its just a bad perk overall.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 909

    No NOED has great design

    Yes NOED is bad

    Survivors should not be able to get away with not countering a perk that does literally nothing until the end and is trivial to counter. NOED should be buffed massively

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,512

    Great design pff

    A perk that only kicks in after you failed isn't great design bud

    I hate late game builds. Sure, let's not learn fundamentals or to apply pressure and get rewarded in the late game. It HAS to be kept weak to be healthy.

  • MadjuraMadjura Member Posts: 909

    A perk that only kicks in after you failed isn't great design bud

    Maybe survivors should fail less and actually do totems then

  • BlueFangBlueFang Member Posts: 1,093
    • I'd like to make an edit to the idea of "all survivor auras are revealed to each other always:

    If a survivor or multiple survivors are in the killer's terror radius their aura should not be shown even to other survivors in the terror radius. That said universal aura reads seems a little too strong, I'd prefer if Bond was made a base stat and everyone could see each other's auras within a certain range

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 1,611

    If you and 3 other survivors can't find 5 totems before the game is over, your definition is bad needs to be re-evaluated.

    NOED is a catch up mechanic that gives a lesser experienced player a fighting chance and is completely counterable by experienced players who aren't lazy. Catch up mechanics are part of game design 101 and are an accepted standard in the industry. See also the Mario Kart Blue Shell and the CoD n00b tube.

    The player who truly is a problem is the one who cannot counter a simple catch up mechanic.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,512

    This game needs a SERIOUS totem revamp before totems can even be considered something that resembles a second objective.

    It's just better to ignore them and hope the killer is good enough to not run NOED.

  • gantesgantes Member Posts: 1,512

    People who defend this abomination don't see it as a catchup tool.

    And it's better for players to learn the damn fundamentals instead of relying on NOED. If anything, it makes bad players worse.

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 1,611

    I see it as a catch up tool and am defending it.

    What do you think I see it as?

    Especially since I don't use it as I'd rather have 4 perks active at all times than 1 that is active for less than 5% of the game's time.

  • TeambossFlozeTeambossFloze Member Posts: 1,260

    what idiot would ignore a totem? If someone is that stupid then I hope killer runs noed to teach them a lesson

  • TeambossFlozeTeambossFloze Member Posts: 1,260

    tbh most of the anti swf stuff here is trash, however I do like the idea of a "blind" mechanic but would need work etc and kill some perks

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 1,611

    This is exactly my point

    There are 4 survivors. Why is it so hard for each of you to find at least 1 totem a game?

    NOED is for newbies to have a fighting chance against experienced players. Experienced players should be good enough to counter it - but they refuse to.

    Laziness - pure and simple - on the part of people who attack this perk rather than counter it and ensure that the killer played the entire game 1 perk short.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,080

    It's clear the devs have no idea how to balance this game (an exaggeration, but still relatively true).

    Either that, or they are unwilling.

    I really hope they start taking game balance serious in the near future.

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