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Why do people want desperately a nerf to Spirit?

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  • snowflake102snowflake102 Member Posts: 2,188

    Plz tell me she's not getting g nerfed plz noooooo :( why are they saying this now

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227

    LOL No it's useful against every killer dude. It's not just about getting off a gen, it's knowing which path is the safe one during a chase. Or when the killer is looking at a hook when you are about to rescue. Or when they see you with BBQ or Nurse's or other aura reading.

    It is far from useless. If you think that I seriously question your abilities as survivor.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    @Freudentrauma that was my suggestion.

    Btw for the long distance thing you could make it so the trail only lasts a finite distance, specifically it could last only within your terror radius.

    Thus if you phase walk in a straight line then the trail only will last for 2/3rds of the distance traveled. But if you phasewalk to a survivor 10 meters away (such as in a chase) then the entire trail would be visible.

    As a consequence that means if you phase walk 25 meters out and then move over a bit before heading back towards your husk then the trail will be discontinuous.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    The existence of a wrong guess implies that there is also a right guess.

    And if there is a guess at all then the Spirit has to make the same set of guesses.

    The details are irrelevant. If the Spirit can't guarantee a hit on reaction and you can't guarantee a miss on a reaction then you can have a mindgame.

    Standing still in this case is a great example of a mindgame because outside of the psychological aspect there is no strategical advantage to doing it. The only reason to stand still is to make your opponent think you aren't standing still, and if the opponent correctly predicts this fact then they get a ton of free distance, enough to avoid a hit.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    All mindgames eventually boil down to a guess, no matter what type of mindgame it is.

    This is why you can have success with things like moonwalking simply by flipping a coin to decide of you are going to fake it or not.

  • humanbeing1704humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 7,426

    the skill cap for spirit is how much money you spend on your headphones

  • Chaddad2169Chaddad2169 Member Posts: 748

    I use dead hard, Adrenaline, DS and currently WGLF because I want Bill levelled up (PS4).

    I've done fine without Spine Chill l, just because I dislike Spine Chill doesn't mean you should doubt my abilities as a survivor, I for one find it useless and it really doesn't help in a chase because when a killer moonwalk they aren't looking at you so spine chill doesn't activate.

    It's useless for my playstyle, my playstyle is to distract the killer, not be an Urban Evading Meg who can't loop with Sprint Burst and Spine Chill

  • Chaddad2169Chaddad2169 Member Posts: 748
  • YaiPaYaiPa Member Posts: 1,929


    No, this infinite rock paper scissors logic doesn't work out. As you go into the match you understand the killer, if he double backs often, moonwalks, you can use these informations, since the red stain gives you informations even when you don't see it. The only way to tell if Spirit is phasing is trying to blind her. Plus, standing still hasn't any downsides, if they GUESS right, and leave the loop, you just phase back and reach them instantly.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    Both of those situations are guesses.

    The Spirit standing still the information. Just because it doesn't tell you of she's phasing doesn't mean it's not information.

    In otherwords it's unreliable information. Aka: prerequisite 2.

    And if a Spirit stands still and you run then she won't be able to hit you even if there isn't any windows or pallets at least not without addons. A Spirit's phase walk only gains 9.2 meters on the survivor, which means that if the survivor is further than that distance when she hits M2 then she will fail to hit you.

    If you are starting at 0 meters then she can just hit you. In any case if she's attempting a standing still mindgame it's going to be because you have enough distance to do a juke otherwise. That means you have enough distance to just run in the other direction.

    Regardless let's look at a red glow mindgame.

    You see the Killer's red stain but not the Killer. He can either go for you directly or walk backwards and cut you off. You can either keep going or turn around.

    Your move depends on what you predict he will do. And his move depends on what he predicts you do. Thus in order to determine his action you need to predict what he's going to predict you will do. But he's doing the same thing, so he's predicting what your prediction will be. This is recursive and thus it is impossible to logically conclude that a specific option is the correct one.

    This can apply to ANY interaction where:

    Player 1 has options A and B

    Player 2 has options C and D

    A beats C

    B beats D

    C beats A

    D beats B

    Player 1 has no option that beats both C and D at once

    Player 2 has no option that beats both A and B at once

    Fun fact: You can mindgame someone in rock, paper, scissors so long as you either play at least 2 rounds or if you are aloud to speak.

  • WeederickWeederick Member Posts: 1,067

    Guessing routes, following scratchmarks, hearing footsteps, seeing grass moving is a different kind of skill. Unless you have allhearing headphones, there is a lot of guess involved too with pretty small margins for error without addons.

    It depends on the survivor too though, some are good with stealth and mindgames, others are not. If you know what Spirit wants to do, you can fool her. I think she is fine, she is balancedly broken.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    I hate to say it, but I kinda agree with survivor mains on this one. Once you reach a certain level with Spirit, there's not much you can do to evade her. All you can do is delay the inevitable.

    Unless someone shows me a comprehensive guide for evading the Spirit, I will continue to maintain my position.

    And for the record, I play survivor at rank 1. Given the choice, I would much rather play against a Nurse than a Spirit (assuming the Nurse player isn't using ridiculous add ons).

  • iBetClaudetteiBetClaudette Member Posts: 299

    Her add-ons need rework. Especially prayer beads

  • Shirtless_MyersShirtless_Myers Member Posts: 269

    She's not fun to play against. It's really as simple as that.

  • cyanfaceSScyanfaceSS Member Posts: 15

    The only things I see wrong with spirit is the lack of base lunge she has and the immense post phase lunge she has with add-ons. With both post phase speed add-ons you can lunge about 10m or more . When all you have to do is hit someone then listen in spirit form. The lunge makes it impossible for survivors to do anything in that split second

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    Nothing in this game takes skill except Huntress and Nurse (although it is more muscle memory).

    Nothing on the survivor side takes skill.

    Nothing on the killer side takes skill.

    Doesn’t take skill to rev a chainsaw, or vomit, or stalk, or moonwalk, etc...

    Point is that barely anything takes skill. This game requires little if any.

  • BithardBithard Member Posts: 406

    @deadbyhitbox for good survivors and squads. Lower ranks yeah she is OP af.

  • shmoulshmoul Member Posts: 97

    @MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky I explained my problem with passive phasing and outside of looking cool it's really just dumb.

    1. No skill on either side needed
    2. For survivors it's just a guessing game, just like everything else included in the spirit's power

    Just because it's "supposed to be passive" doesn't justify those things. It does it's job at confusing a survivor, but to me this just seems like really, really bad design.

    "if your at a loop and you know that she is using her power or think she is, don't stay at the loop, go to another nearby one" You cannot know she is phasing. It's impossible to tell. You just have to guess.

    And please stop putting words in my mouth, I explicitly said "Now I don't want her overly nerfed, but I want the devs to introduce some sort of a way to tell what the spirit is doing, that way surviving is not just rolling the die and hoping that you get lucky, but an actual representation of skill."

    PS. Perks are not counterPLAY. They can be counters, but not counterplay.

  • dastaerykdastaeryk Member Posts: 40

    First, people complain just because they can. There will always be something that somebody will complain about. Today, that is spirit - just because it's a top pick so the spotlight is on her.

    Secondly, people complain because Spirit forces into a completely different playstyle especially during chases.

    Similarly to Nurse (that's with all chances the second killer complained about) the Spirit obliterates usual looping dynamics. To outplay Spirit you must learn again from zero how to play against her. This requires stepping outside the comfort zone, hence not many people will be excited about it - because they are inherently lazy (and that's natural).

    From this point of view, complaining about Spirit seems a bit counterproductive - survivors complain the gameplay being boring, but the only way to change it is to force new playstyles by introducing a killer like Spirit.

    Finally, Prayer Beads is nothing more than an ultra rare addon which is, correctly, very strong. There are many more ultra rare killer addons which heavily impact the game - not mentioning insta Heal and key on survivor side.

    Stop complaining and learn how to play against spirit - especially because also the killer must go through a painful learning process as well to use it successfully. It's not broken, it's simply a high yield killer if played correctly.

  • VenoxxieVenoxxie Member Posts: 300

    Only thing I hate about her is Prayer Beads. Other than that there's nothing to hate. But that's as bad as other killers extra rare perks such as Iri's. So if people hate that addon, they should take out all the op addons. I mean, people could always just not play if they hate addons like that sooo much.

    If you're not injured and want to avoid her, just walk. Oh it'll be so hard to not run, boohoo.

    But I see it like this, think about why Freddy got reworked. Killers didn't like that they couldn't hit right away (Spirit can but you can't see the player and have to make an educated guess that they might be right in front of you and many Spirit's guess right so I don't see why anyone who plays her should complain) and Survivors didn't like that they couldn't see Freddy, which is the same with Spirit. I hate Freddy's rework and if people really want to see Spirit just like they wanted to see him or whatever they're complaining about something dumb. Leave it alone, girl doesn't need a nerf. She's been sliced up enough don't you think?

  • KillmasterKillmaster Member Posts: 419

    The only realistic nerf I could think of is to remove her collision while phasing.

  • ZertixZertix Member Posts: 122

    I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. The desire to improve and get better is one of the reasons why people keep coming back to play the game more. It is one of the reasons why the game is still alive after 3 years. You can't improve at doing something if does not need skill.

  • mcNuggetsmcNuggets Member Posts: 767

    No there is not.

    The spirit has to guess and you as survivor have the same tools to mindgame, as the spirit.

    There is a huge mindgame going on, all the time, but you can't win it by putting down a pallet.

  • deadbyhitboxdeadbyhitbox Member Posts: 1,113

    Hearing someone grunting and being able to use your ears isn't skill. It's literally just a guessing game where skill becomes irrelevant for both sides. If you play a Spirit without Iron Will, there is literally nothing you can do except hope the Spirit has dollar Store headphones and old man hearing.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,824

    Yeah you can get better but all killers have a skill cap and it doesn’t particularly take an insane amount of skill to do well.

    How skillful can you really be with Leatherface and Wraith? It’s just basic map awareness and knowing the map you’re on. You get better at the game but a majority of the killers don’t take a lot of skill to be good with.

    Only ones who take a lot of skill are Huntress and Nurse.

    Spirit is just tracking.

    Plague vomits...wow, that takes so much skill.

    Billy revs the back of the survivors and insta-downs.

    Wraith dings a bell.

    Their powers are not very skillful. Moonwalking only really works on lower rank survivors.

    Again, the game is meant to be fun...not skillful.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    You can actually hear her footsteps, but if you do, you're basically guaranteed to get hit.

  • ZertixZertix Member Posts: 122

    No, this is not true.

    If you are guessing as a spirit, you are doing it wrong. From the survivor perspective, it is like flipping a coin but the odds are not in your favor. From the spirit perspective, you don't need to guess at all. Just stand still for a few seconds and react to what the survivor is doing.

    Spirit has many tools to track you down: grass moving, collision, breathing, grunting and scratch marks. The survivor on the other hand has zero information about the spirit.

    I have been playing spirit a lot lately. The only time I need to guess is if the survivor vaulted a strong window and doubled back or not.

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    NO

    That's not how that works

    If something is a guessing game in this sense for one side then it MUST necessarily be a guessing game for the other side as well.

    If the Survivor has to guess then the Spirit ALWAYS must guess, no matter how much information they have.

    This is because during a mindgame the correct option for one side is based off of the other side's prediction of you.

    The Survivor is trying to predict your next move and is acting based on it. (or your previous move in the case of fake phasing)

    You as the Spirit are trying to predict what the Survivor's prediction of you will be in order to decide your next move.

    Since the Survivor knows that is the case that means he needs to predict your prediction of his prediction and so on.

    This is true for any and all mindgames. Since you are trying to predict their NEXT move that means you could straight up remove the invisibility aspect and STILL have mindgames sometimes (but not nearly as often).

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