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Devs, are you gonna ignore Legion's problems for the next 6 months?



  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    Thank Mrs. Queen for your transparency, it means a lot to the community! πŸ™‚

  • DingDongsDingDongs Member Posts: 684

    Why no devs do care about clown even he still have bottle bugs since years but yet they already have a plan to change something with legion, nurse and bubba?

  • Chaotic_RiddleChaotic_Riddle Member Posts: 1,953

    I always love seeing not_Queen respond. She's more upfront to us rather than other's. I love you, Queen. Thank you. <3

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Did you miss where the Dev came in and said they are working on it?

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Thank you for that. I get so tired of seeing "No Counter Play" as an excuse for nerfs.

  • ToastfaceKillaToastfaceKilla Member Posts: 574

    Legion would be fine with a less-than-lethal power but better map pressure. That was the idea behind the rework but it was so ham-fisted, it hasn't made them unplayable, but its made them un-fun.

    In the context of the game, enduring a 5 second eyes-closed stun should have a worthwhile reward, nobody wants to keep stunning themselves half the game, a stun like that should be a powerful ability, not utter garbage. But as they have said Legion is a see-saw balance wise as nobody wants to see the old Legion back.

    I do like the idea of deep wounds refiling the timer though, that's a good start.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 566

    Because there was no counterplay if the legion wanted. What the guy above wrote is hogwash. Rational people wanted a legion CHANGE, not nerf.

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,520
    edited September 2019

    Well if it was so, can you explain why some people have do counterplay and while we already question things... Why the Legion was not number 1 in the kill rate statistic?

    It is ok, if you were not able to do it. Not everyone was good enough for it, like not everyone is able to loop, or some people always missing a skill check by a gen, but that doesn't mean, that those things are not possible.

    And if you like to have videos that proves it... They are on YouTube. Those videos would have been also impossible to made, if there would have been no counterplay.

    Don't blame the game because you were not able to do it and also don't be ashamed by it. Not everyone can be good in everything.

    Thats just how it is. We all have our weaknesses.

    Post edited by Talmeer on
  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 566

    Do you know what counter-play means? Does that have anything to do with kill potential? No, it doesn't. And this topic has been beaten to death. There really isn't any point talking to someone who is being deliberately obtuse.

    Whatever videos you are talking about are done by terrible players - that's something I can assure you without even seeing them.

    Anyone with any sense of balance and game health was very outspoken about how broken legion was, and even the devs, who are notoriously slow at fixing broken things, made that a priority, because legion was ruining games left and right.

    Do you know why everyone hated legion? Because actual good survivors (yes, like me) were taken down by poor, poor legions the same as bad survivors.

    Current legion is in a bad spot, but how he is now is 1000 times more healthy for the game than the old legion.

  • johnyxjohnyx Member Posts: 9

    Awesome finally someone answered about the situation with Legion it gives me hope

  • Pokerface303Pokerface303 Member Posts: 110


    I never said he needed a nerd, I never thought legion was op he was mid teir at best. Legion did need a change though.

    No counter play is a huge issue when it comes to any game not just dbd. If a player feels they have no control over the situation it's not fun. When something is based off luck and not skill it will ruin the experience because with luck there is no outplaying, no improving, no challenge.

    I mean just look at spirit, dozens of post a day on how spirit needs a nerf or rework because she has no counter play. People feel cheated when they die to a spirit because they didn't die because they got out played or the player was better they died because they got unlucky. It was the same thing for legion.

    Again legion did not need a nerf but he did need a change. Now the way they went about the change I don't like either, it was lazy and poorly designed but I'm still glad he got it. I really do hope he gets looked at soon and buffed but he very much needed a change.

  • PennosukePennosuke Member Posts: 100
    edited September 2019

    Meanswhile what I think that all Nurse add-ons are change into something like...

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Haemorrhage Status Effect for 30 seconds."

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Blindness Status Effect for 30 seconds."

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Exhuastion Status Effect for 15 seconds."

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Mangled Status Effect for 60 seconds."

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Hindered Status Effect for 30 seconds."

    "Survivors hit by Blink Attack suffer from the Broken Status Effect for 60 seconds."

    //How to make Nurse become mid-tier Killer 101 πŸ˜‚πŸ‘Œ

    Post edited by Pennosuke on
  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 6,807

    The issue isn't that Legion was too strong (well franks was but I'll get to that in a sec), but that skill doesn't matter that much when playing against him.

    Not just that his skill doesn't really matter, but yours doesn't either. You will be downed after a mostly fixed duration of time no matter your skill level. You may be able to delay it for a few seconds but not long enough to really matter in the long run.

    The reason why he was bad is because that fixed time is long enough that the other Survivors will have time to gen rush before he has time to do better than maybe a 2k.

    That's where Franks comes in. With this addon he downs you significantly faster, still in terms of a fixed time however, so with that he passes a threshhold that lets him start 4king, again still with very little skill involved on both sides.

    So ideally the fix would be to increase the difficulty of using his power and also increasing the reward for successfully using it by far more so that he can be a good Killer.

  • Pokerface303Pokerface303 Member Posts: 110


    I know in the ptb you could definitely pull that trick off every time but (correct me if I'm wrong) if you had high enough sensitivity you could always hit the person trying to vault. With pallet stunning if the legion hit someone and then ran to someone else to hit them they didn't have enough time to wait for the pallet drop but mid chase when they used frenzy on you even without addons they had more than enough time to wait for the pallet drop then hit you. The only consent thing you could do was stand in the pallet then get hit and stun him.

    Yea people will complain about anything it's the internet, but with legion it was basically unanimous by the community that he needed to be changed. There were different discussions on how that should happen but almost everyone wanted him to be changed.

    With hatches I'm confused on what your saying. "where is no counterplay to it, once you got hitten." Well I mean yea, that's like saying there is no counter play after you get hit with a chainsaw. Because that's not where the counter play is, the counter play with those killers is that you have to avoid there power because it could down you. That's how old legion was, his power was able to down you but there was no way how to counter his power. With huntress or billy there is plenty of counter play to the hatches and chainsaw.

    Also I never said legion was too strong and needed to be nerfed. Just because a killer has no counter play doesn't make them the best killer. Chases with legion still lasted a while because he had to hit people so many times and get stunned a lot. So he wasn't the best killer but his chases still had no counter play and it wasn't fun. Just because a killer isn't the best dosen't mean they don't need to be changed.

    I agree that killers that require you to play different are a lot of fun. That's why I love huntress and nurse, they change up chases and make you play differently but they do it in a way that still has counterplay and is fair.

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,520
    edited September 2019

    You are right... We are even not be able to take that as a serious argument, that a person has no counterplay after it got hitten by a hatchet from the huntress... (but we should take it better as a serious argument if we look what the nerf cryers have made with the Legion).

    Still it was a argument of a nerf cryer.

    The most people know that they have to avoid the hatchets, or the chainsaws as soon as the abilitie for it got activated, because the counterplay starts then and not after billy had ram a chainsaw into your back.

    But the same was with the default Legion, aka a Legion without any addons attached. I know a lot of people that have play on this way, because for many people I at least know, the addons were to strong and have taken out the fun.

    The fun for a player like me was, to do something viable in a short amount of time. Not to do the same in a feeled hour (I know it was not a hour, but feeled...), thanks to addons you have also mentioned.

    You and me, we are pretty close in the way we see the Legion, I guess, but nobody should forget imo the weakness of the pure base Legion abilities.

    You just seem not really to have made much experience with the Legion without the mentioned addons from you.

    What the ptb matters, so I didn't know much about that time.

    I have come shortly after the Legion ptb to dbd. I was "fixed on" (if we like to say so), by a YouTuber and his friends that I like to watch (they playing all kinds of games, not just dbd), but I still was not sure if I should buy the game, but then I had saw a Legion advertisment video and I had know... "This killer you would like to play, no matter if he is op, or if he is the most weaken character in the game" and well... Thats my story I have come to dbd.

    But you can believe me that I had met survivors that were happy with the Legion in the days back than. They had thank me for the challenging games. I had even start to make screenshots from those chats, so that I can prove it (because I know how the internet is thinking - aka. screenshots or it didn't happen).


    We will never understand each other. You seem to be on your hate train and what ever a Legion main says to you (aka. the person that knows the Legion most because they have spent the most time with it) you just play it down.

    I have also see a ton of bad survivors in "the Legion is op lololol videos" and have sometimes wish that I encounter such stup... rhm... I mean different playing survivors, but in some videos its not even bad if someone shows not his full potential, because so we can see everything better.

    Would you be able to learn better from a video where everyone do his thing in a matter of secounds, or would you be able to learn better from a video were the people act a bit slower, so that you can understand what happened better?

    I would definitely learn better from the last type of video.

    Also it is NOT healthy for the game when Legion mains left the game a whole type of playerbranch don't feel connected anymore to the game.

    You can of course fly around with your opinion, but then you have to live with it, that Legion mains and also a part of the survivors will correct you.


    You are right and I would be happy if a addon like Franks Mixtape had never seen the daylight. Sadly it had and I think that this addon and some others have hurt the Legion more (indirectly) as every nerf cryer could possible do.

    But don't forgett that little pallet game, that you only needed to do against the old Legion. Also even I had play still with a variety of killers, I can't see much difference between the "skills" for other killers and the pre patch Legion, as long as we talk from the Legion without addons. With addons it was ridiculous.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 566

    Legion mains left the game because unfair mechanics were removed? Oh no! What a pity!! I would have the same reaction if moris and insta-heals were removed and people left because of that - good riddance.

    I understand why the devs job is so hard now...people with no concept of fair play are so outspoken about keeping their broken, unbalanced toys intact.

    These 'counters' to old legion you talk about are absurd. A huntress hatchet can be dodged. It can be avoided with strong positioning and dodging. It feels fair to be hit by a hatchet. The only complaints I've ever seen about huntress have been one-hit hatchets (understandable complaint), and hit box size. Old legion (if the killer had a brain) was undodge-able. And after you got hit once the chase was over. So, in your mind, something that can't be dodged and after being hit once you will be downed, was fair? And for some reason you think all the actual good players were misinformed when they told you legion was absolutely terrible for the health of the game?

    Addons or no addons, the result was the same against a legion who wanted to down you. There was nothing you could do to outplay the legion if he so desired. No matter what you say, rational people understand that sort of gameplay is unhealthy for the game. Period.

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,520
    edited September 2019

    No survivor was down from just 1 Legion hit. That was not even possible with the op addons and some of them have already made it really easy, buuut not that easy.

    You can dislike the counters to the Legion, but that doesn't mean that they have not exist. You can't denie it. Too many survivor have done them and it got too many times showed in videos (I know, everytime the Legion was a noob, because everytime you complain about something, the others are noobs not... I got it).

    Besides that, every killer with experience would down a survivor in a 1n1 situation, if he really goes tryhard on tunneling. If you think that you would have survive against me as example while I was playing Meyers, Nurse, or Trapper you would be very wrong if I would decide to tunnel you at all costs.

    It is always bad if people leave a game, no matter which reasons they have, besides exploiters or people that are pure toxic (because those people lead other people to leave the game). You can turn it around like you want -the Legion patch was from a community perspective not a win for dbd.

    Besides the one side that honest people have left the game and have with it stop to buy dlcs and cosmetics, the toxic type of player had feel encouraged because their weaponized dcing against a killer had work and even today those people plague and frustrate the people in the game.

    Also specific game mechanics and specific killers talk to specific players. You get those people not in the game, without having something for them. It is always bad if a game has nothing to offer for a potential player, because that means you get less income (money) with your game.

    You can hate the Legion players all you want and even insult them, still the game is more profitable with them, as without them.

  • MiniPixelsMiniPixels Member Posts: 532

    Again, like I said earlier in this thread, there are only so many people on the dev team, and only so many of them work on killer reworks, and add-on changes, the devs will most likely go in order from killers that have been waiting for changes the longest, to the newer ones. Don't expect a Legion update for a little while, they will get to it when they can.

  • OmansOmans Member Posts: 566

    Agreed. Nurse first, then the weaker killers.


    Do you even remember old legion? I can't even count how many times I went down after just one hit. I don't like players who disconnect, but I don't blame them even a little bit when it was against a legion like that.

    If you don't play killer well you will not catch me. You will chase me for 5 generators and I will run out the gates. The better player wins. With legion that was not the case. Even a player like you, with no understanding of good balance, could down a player like me. Every down legion got was guaranteed. Survivor skill meant nothing.

  • TalmeerTalmeer Member Posts: 1,520
    edited September 2019

    I don't argue that 5 gens maybe would be popping up in this time, but you would not survive and there are killers out there where I bet that they a lot better as me. Its not that hard to tunnel a survivor down, if you really forget everything about it.

    And I remember playing the Legion. I have main the Legion, but I had main the Legion without addons because the most addons were to op (imo).

    Aaand that's why I can expose every guy who is exaggerate.

    As a matter of fact, because of the short frenzy time, you could hit in real game situations a single survivor only 1-2 times (sometimes 3 if the survivor was really unlucky) and still after 1-3 hits the survivors have stay and were be able to heal them self.

    The Legion was not known for 1 hit everyone, -she was known for hitting survivors multiple times.

    Also I have a good feeling for balance, I guess, I just don't forget a killer character about that. I don't let go hate into my thoughts. Would I let this go in my thoughts I would see survivors in general differently as I do now, but I don't do it since I know that in the game are mostly survivors that are different to the survivors we met here in the forums.

    Those survivors like to have fun games and are also happy to have challenging games and they hold most of the time no personal grudges against a specific character and that I know, because I have talk a lot with them in my endgame chats.

  • DBDbuildsYTDBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042

    This is not an excuse, the legion rework is a stain on the devs curriculum.

    They had a concept for killer who could nullify one v one and they caved in to survivors disconnecting instead of punishing the disconnectors.

    And with this surrender they created the most unfunny and trash killer.

    The only idiot whose power PREVENTS him from downing survivors.

    Legion needs urgent action to be made playable rather than a pile of steaming garbage

    @Almo @Not_Vietfox

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 765
    edited September 2019

    I agree with this guy. The disconnectors weren't punished and even got what they wanted.

    Now legion is just a clown with no power, no fun and a very sluggish gameplay m1 killer with a lot of downsides to a useless power.

    They should've fixed the exploits and see how he would perform. I bet not even close to good.

  • DBDbuildsYTDBDbuildsYT Member Posts: 1,042


    Nobody wants an exploiting moon walking legion , but not even this Clown we got

  • AlmoAlmo Member, Dev Posts: 1,120

    I've said this before: high DC rate is only one indicator that there's an issue. There were other reasons we did an update. We're still watching data on them, and will make further adjustments if we feel it is necessary.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    That, for sure, will be a nice quality of life change that will make his power more fun to use.

    But without his power being lethal, he will be basically a m1 killer with no power after the first hit because you can't down people with FF. That takes out all the fun because you know that, in the end, you will need to just walk and be looped to oblivion like every other m1 killer (which isn't fun).

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