I understand the part with Ruin. But why using Agitation and Brutal strength on Legion then? There are much better perks for him and so unless you don't have Sloppy Butcher, Thana, M&A, Spirit Fury, or Enduring, why would you use these perks. Unless you did a meme build or wanted to test it out.
I've said this a few times. I like Agitation for bodyblocking/bringing survs close to gens for Pop if possible. It's also a comfort perk. Not meant to be crazy good or fix any issues, I just really like Agi. Same with Brutal. I just like being able to clear out pallets, break gens faster, especially with Pop if I'm low on the timer on a bigger map and might be running out soon. The build is mainly just for comfort, and because stall is boring. Agi has actually won me a few games cuz they didn't expect the bonus speed and I got a slug out of it + time to carry a survivor to a hook. (Mad Grit wouldn't help cuz the speed is why I got the hit, before anyone says MG>Agi.)
Not to mention no perk would've affected that game aside from CI, and even then not a guarantee I'd have won. Would it have gone better? Possible, depends on how the rng spawned the gens, but it was a coordinated team and I lost. Endfury is super easy to beat, Sloppy is a meme if they don't heal or have We'll Make It. Thana wouldn't help cuz one had a box, and I they kept healing together so it wouldn't have been much. M&A I've tried, but I just don't like it. People still bolt super early so I don't get much from it. Enduring is ok, but I still prefer BS, just personal preference.
And yea, I'm not even saying I did amazing that game, I pretty much checked out after the 3 gens popped, and my game started to act up. Felt like I was running in slow-mo and my sens was off for some reason. Prob cuz I haven't played Legion in a bit and forgot just how awful they feel now. I'll play more games tonight and probably do better after some warming up. I just wanted to show how fast you can basically get cornered and how how bad gen times are.
We need a second obj or something, cuz if a killer wants to extend the game, or be nice you risk just getting utterly stomped. I don't want to be that, "Just play Nurse with Ruin, and 8 other stall perks!!!" I much prefer snowballing, and playing around than just stopping the game. Though those stall perk don't do much and don't scare me, cuz I know the numbers, and how to deal with most of them.
Yeah. There really needs to be an adjustable curve on gen speed based a variety of factors including map size, gens left, survivors left, etc. Finding the sweet spot would be difficult, but most games are won or lost within the first 2 minutes. This is the opposite of how games should work.
Exactly, and I'm not asking for survivors to get dumpstered and hard nerfed, or forced to work on gens for even longer. I would just like a healthy game extender for players like myself who like to cycle, play fair, get everyone points, and enjoy a match. 5 minutes, is not a match. 8 if you include EGC, but that's just camping the hook and defending it hoping they don't play it right and rip them off the hook if you had a bad game. I've had COD games last longer, and those are meant to be fast.
We've had a lot of great suggestions on ideas to fix the gen speed issues, and new secondary objectives which is nice. That's what I'm hoping for.
This is probably one of the most sensible posts so far. Thank you.
I'm out of touch? I guess my multiple 100%s on this game and hundreds of perfect Laurie games don't count for jack. You're right tho, I'm just a newb who's never played survivor.
Ruin is RNG. Plain and simple. I explained why it's trash in my previous comments. Against survivors who actually know what they're doing, it's a waste of a perk slot.
If you're missing great skill checks literally every few seconds then I'm sorry, I don't really know what to tell you. Maybe you need to get better at survivor? There's a helpful tool online that you can search with Google to help you practice skill checks. I'm definitely not perfect, I only hit greats around 60% of the time, but I'm sure as hell not stupid enough to keep bashing my head against a generator with 3 people and Ruin up when I'm too ######### at the game to even hit greats.
You're right about one thing, though. I'm not going to convince you, and you're not going to convince me. Now go back to getting camped at Rank 8.
I'm sorry, anyone defending the fact that three gens got done in a minute and a half is out of their mind. That's all there is to say on that front.
More than half of an objective being done after one chase is absurd. That's not debatable.
Mate, if I'm getting Ruin consistently broken in the first 30 seconds of the match, why on Earth would I continue to run Ruin? I could do much better work with Pop or Discordance. Ruin is only effective against bad survivors because they stamp their feet and refuse to just power through the Hex checks, or they all gang up on one generator and constantly hit good skill checks. News flash: You should NOT GANG UP ON ONE GENERATOR unless it's the very last one, or you have PT. The survivors in OP's video were smart, they spread out. Would Ruin have saved him a little time? Sure, maybe a few seconds. Probably not enough to save the match. I have never had a problem doing Ruin gens after the 300-hour mark of playing this game.
I'm out of touch with the game? I guess my multiple 100%s and dozens of escapes against top tier killers don't count for jack, then. You're probably right tho, I'm just some newb who's never played survivor.
I already explained why Ruin is trash in my previous comments. It has absolutely no effect on survivors who actually know what they're doing, aren't stubborn, and are willing to play the game. The reason that it's "so effective" at every rank other than the top tier (you know, where the good players are?) is because BAD SURVIVORS ARE BAD. And you have the top streamers like Tru3 and Morf reciting the same BS narrative that everyone should just run Ruin because "it's the best perk in the game" while they get constant 4ks on braindead survivors who can't loop for #########. So glue-sniffing killers at low ranks eat it up, run Ruin and Spirit Fury on Hillbilly every game, facecamp, and jerk off Hex: Ruin as the divine god of killer perks. Play against people who actually know how to do generators sometime.
If you're messing up skill checks literally every few seconds as survivor, then sorry, I'm not sure what to tell you. Maybe you just need to practice some more? There's a helpful tool online that you can look up to help you get better at hitting skill checks. I'm not perfect myself, I can only hit greats around 60%-70% of the time (and I need to warm up first), but I'm definitely not gullible enough to continue working on a generator with teammates who can't even hit skill checks correctly.
You are right about one thing, though. Nothing I say will convince you, and you're never going to convince me. Now go back to being camped at Rank 8.
You can’t nerf gen speed/ add an objective to balance survivors around weaker killers though. All killers above mid-tier would need to be nerfed as well, and aside from killers probably screaming about that, it’s a lot of work to find the correct balance. It’s easier to just buff/rework the weak killers and work on maps then change the whole game.
Only 3-4 killers really excel at the moment, and even they got ruined. Mid-tier isn't even mid-tier cuz they're strong. They're there cuz they're just not trash tier. Survivors can bully anyone if they just focus on gens and squeeze out time. Just watch the first DBD tourney. Everyone played Nurse, and rarely got a kill, if any kills at all. Even that kill required hard camping. Y'all vastly overrate killer power.
Honestly, it seems like Ruin's biggest flaw is that it's a gamble perk because you're hoping that the following things don't happen:
I've seen people running perks other than Ruin to potentially stall the game because of all these factors that can make Ruin very underwhelming, while other perks like PGTW and Surge are less of a gamble and reward for you being able to down someone (hopefully quickly), and keep the game rolling with regression to slow down the game a bit in your favor.
Corrupt Intervention I've also seen, as it's guaranteed and gives you less gens to patrol while also making it easier to apply pressure due to survivors being forced to go to certain parts of the map if they want to work on a generator. The con of it doing nothing after 2 minutes really doesn't seem that bad for the benefits it offers given that Ruin, an alternative, could just get cleansed within the first 20 seconds of the match.
Real red rank killers have to try hard NOT to double pip against purple and green rank survivors. Most red killers can secure victory in 1 or 2 minutes against survivors at those ranks. A true red rank killer doesn't need to use perks or addons until maybe high purple or red. One month I did a perkless, addonless run to rank 1. Sooooo, all your pictures are pretty, but that's about it.
And I notice that the double pip bar on almost all of your pictures is in the pre-patch location. Nice use of old pictures! Literally every killer who is half-way decent could have a collection of screen shots like that...if I played long enough yesterday alone I could too...
Look, dude, I get the frustration. Playing killer is MUCH more stressful and frustrating than survivor. If you don't play well, if you don't prepare, if you don't make good choices, you can easily be overhwlemed. But that's how it NEEDS TO BE if the game wants to have any semblance of balance. Why should YOU, a killer who doesn't play optimally, be able to do well against survivors who are playing optimally. It literally makes 0 sense.
Good Killers make games longer by applying pressure, playing smart, and playing well. In that game you did none of those things and you got punished hard. You seem to think you shouldn't have been punished as hard as you were, but it seems about right to me. You don't need nurse with ruin to play well against good survivors. I know that goes against the victim mentality so many killer mains have, but it's true.
Your 2 biggest problems in that game were you did not play prepare for the game, and you did not play smart. That's enough to lose you a game. You want more time in a game when you play like that/play nice/don't play optimally? Too bad. Actual good Killers will take advantage of that extra time and 4k every game.
Ah yes, you lose cuz survivors were afk. My favorite mechanic of DBD. I didn't bring trash perks that the community covets despite them being medicore at best cuz if everyone didn't dryhump the meta, they might lose, gasp. I mean, they still lose, but who cares right? The game was slowed a wee bit so it's god tier right?
If the screenshots and videos don't say anything then move on. You refuse to listen, you constantly try to act superior and I'm honestly just done trying to convince you otherwise. I know how to play the game, you can't read, bye. You enjoy running Ruin every game and I'll keep 4king at red ranks and ignoring the meta people who think Ruin is a requirement instead of acknowledging a broken game.
Yes, you lose cuz survivors played semi-well. Real great logic. I'm done being nice, I'm sorry, I don't care anymore. You're just trying to be contrarian and you're bringing up absolutely ridiculous scenarios. Go watch Marth, the tourney, Scorpionz, the top killers in the game and they will lose a few games. It happens. I'm sorry, but if you're somehow getting quad iri against "good survivors" you're just lying and your point and arguments are simply moot as well.
"You don't need nurse with ruin to play well against good survivors. I know that goes against the victim mentality so many killer mains have, but it's true."
So, you're a survivor main? Makes sense if you are honestly. Only surv mains claim to 4k and never lose a match. Sorry I don't follow the community hivemind chief, but you keep pretending the game is fine and that game was winnable. I'll be off away from lala land and trying to get the game to an actually healthy state. Killers don't have a victim mentality they're tired of BHVR and the community brushing off broken perks, mechanics, and horrible map design as skill on the survivors part.
Good killers 4k every game? Dude, seriously, the lying needs to stop. At this point you're honestly just delusional. There is no killer that 4k's every single game. Especially against optimal survivors. I don't know what to tell you, but we're done here. I ######### started the game, found a survivor, and lost 3 ######### gens. There is no "smart play" no "optimal play". You camp/tunnel and you lose. That's the play. Learn to read.
What part of "RANK RESET" didn't come through? They're not ######### purple or green, or anything. They have full perk builds and thousands of hours. Reading comprehension, try it sometime, jesus. I'm done replying, gonna turn off notifs, I need a vacation from this or I'm gonna catch what you all have.
I've played against CI, it's not scary. I either do a gen in an area with safe loops, or I just roam around the corrupt gens til they pop going for totems/chests so I'm not wasting my time.
I mean, the way you’re talking though, you would think killers are only winning 30% of games...and we know that ain’t true. The stronger killers, not only the killers but players themselves, can deal with gens as is... so why would we nerf the survivor objective and leave those killers alone, making them STRONGER? That doesn’t make any sense at all if balance is what you are after. You want to balance survivors to mid tier or worse level killers? Then bring all killers to that point. That’s completely fair. I think you might be going overboard with the whole “power role” crap, remember....balance is 2K.
I'll try saying this as simply as possible because you are misunderstanding every single thing I say.
You are incredibly wrong about ruin. Especially if you decide to play the way you do. It's as simple as that. Don’t use it if you don't want to, but then don't complain about Gen times if you don't use what you are given to defend against it. If you can't appreciate the help ruin can give you EVERY game, even if it is broken quickly, I really question your understanding of this game. There is a reason ruin is so popular even against the best players.
The screen shots and videos do say something, though. They tell me that you think you are really good. Whether you actually are, though...
"Go watch Marth, the tourney, Scorpionz, the top killers in the game and they will lose a few games. It happens."
Do you honestly, truly, seriously believe that players like Marth should never lose a game? In literally every competitive game even the best players lose. Did you know that there are good survivors too? That if they play well they should have a chance to escape? Is that really that hard to comprehend? It's really, really telling of your mentality that you think it should be possible to get quad iri against 4 good survivors consistently. Why do you think you should be able to dominate like that? Do you understand what balance is?
Reading comprehension time: I never said I 4k every game. I never said I am a Survivor main (I play more killer, I want both sides to be as balanced as possible). I never said good Killers should 4k every game. I have said many times in other threads that 2k is the balance goal. All things being equal, a good killer against good survivors should get a 2k, if they both play well. There should be few 4ks and few 0ks. More 1ks and 3ks, and in a balanced game 2ks should be the most common. EVERY good killer against 4 good survivors has the potential to get AT LEAST that 2k in the current state of the game.
Again, one last time: I don't 4k every game. I don't escape every game. And I shouldn't be able to do either. But, I play both roles at the highest level, and I understand that the game is as balanced as it has ever been. Even with that terrible start you had in your legion game, and those 'interesting' perk choices, and your lack of addons, and your decision to play 'fair' in a game where the survivors were going hard on you, you still had the potential to come out of that game with AT LEAST a tie. Good Killers ARE able to do that.
I seriously hope that the devs don't listen to this sort of complaining. If something like a second objective is added, and nothing else is changed, I will start to 4k every game as killer (again, I feel I must repeat that I NEVER SAID I 4K EVERY GAME). Solo survivor especially wouldn't be worth playing.
The one change that DOES need to happen is a scaling down of the many terrible maps in the game. That will be a huge buff to all killers, and hey, you never know, that sort of change might have allowed you to 4k in that game despite not having the best perks, not using addons, not using your power, not having a good early game. Amazing!
It depends on the killer for how good CI is, some use it very well while others they may take a different perk instead to better suit their strengths and playstyle. It's a pretty safe perk, though, if one isn't feeling super confident in activating the other perks.
Also, spending 2 minutes not working towards the objective and cleansing dull totems/searching through chests seems like a waste of time to me if they don't have NOED.
I'm gonna try to be as nice as possible, but you miss played hard dude, you can't lay the blame on gen speeds only. Also, that was more than likely a SWF with toolboxes while your running no Ruin.
Your first mistake was tagging that person in frenzy and sticking on them when you could of left her mending and not taken a pallet to the face... You should of split and found out the location of every other survivor on the map while in frenzy and tagged them all to keep them busy and off of gens. Your job as a killer is to keep them busy and not let them feel safe, as soon as you tunnel someone not near any gens you are already throwing the match. Versus a SWF a mistake can cost you the match and you had a ton here I'm not gonna get into.
I do believe that gens need some looking into when it comes to SWF as they power through gens when there is no Ruin in play. Heck sometimes even with Ruin they just get no skill checks or land every single one.. But, with straight solo players with no coordination really, they just get worked over, lets be honest. Just run Ruin dude because you would benefit from it from what I saw in your vid. Take the RNG chance they might not find it early because you can use it.
Because most survivors are trash at this game. That simple.
It's so pathetically easy to hold M1 while someone runs from pallet to pallet to window to infinite to shack to pallet etc. If the majority of the playerbase actually learned how to play instead of complaining at any possible buff killers ever got, the devs would have buffed killers long, long ago.
He and others have explained multiple times why Ruin is heavily overrated. It honestly does nothing unless you're a killer with no mobility (Huntress) or a killer that needs time at the beginning at all costs (Trapper, Hag, and Myers). Other than those four, Ruin is a joke of a perk and the only reason people run it so often is because every other stall perk is so trash it's not worth running.
He misplayed, yes, but that misplay happened after he lost 3 gens in a minute and a half. You cannot recover from that if the survivors aren't braindead. Period.
The devs have GUTTED Surviviors whenever any relevant opening for them comes up. Killers don't wanna look at walls or run lightborn to counter flashlights? Killers sick of Surviviors healing? Ok let's buff sloppy butcher and gut self care. Killers don't like mindgaming unsafe windows? Entity blocker. Killers can't chase Surviviors effectively? BLOODLUST.
Tell me sir if Surviviors are the trash ones why are killers the ones that get all the favor in balance patches and why do they get mechanics programmed around second chances.
His misplay was persisting on the Claudette before the gens popped.
He ran horrible perks on Legion.
He didn't have any perk to slow completion speed.
That was likely a 4 man SWF or at least a 3man.
Why should he not get punished? He played like ######### and got punished for it, like he deserved.
I agree. Gens are fine.
The devs have gutted mechanics that came within a hair's worth of being exploits. And the rest of your comment speaks of newcomer ignorance:
You can't look at walls if there are none around and good Survivors made sure to get downed out in the open with their flashlight team mate nearby.
Lightborn never countered insta-blinds since they blinded so quickly in the first place.
Sloppy Butcher got buffed only to the extent that it now applies Mangled. A Status Effect that was NERFED when the Healing Nerf came so that effectively, there was no difference between pre-nerf-healing and post-nerf-healing when you were affected by Mangled.
Entity blockers were introduced to stop infinite window loops. Those loops were absolutely impossible to mindgame. Wretched Shop used to have THREE open Windows right next to each other in the day. Mindgaming that does not work, since it's a fool-proof loop.
Bloodlust a paradigm of a mechanic getting nothing but nerfed to bits, even since before it was implemented into the game.
Bloodlust is lost so quickly these days that most Killers barely get to Bloodlust I. Most Killers I know haven't gotten to Tier II or III in well over a year.
And the only ones in DbD's history to consistently get second-chance mechanics/Perks were Survivors. Period.
"You can't look at walls if there are none around and good Survivors made sure to get downed out in the open with their flashlight team mate nearby."
Surviviors aren't gonna flashlight save if you scare them off. Patrol the slug, fake it. Do something that ISN'T walk right into the save and the ######### about it.
"Entity blockers were introduced to stop infinite window loops. Those loops were absolutely impossible to mindgame. Wretched Shop used to have THREE open Windows right next to each other in the day. Mindgaming that does not work, since it's a fool-proof loop."
You not see where I said it exists on UNSAFE windows? Like TL walls? Ever mindgame a TL wall? It's easy. If a Survivior manages to get 3 good vaults off at a TL wall in 1 chase they should not be cut off from it. Period.
"Bloodlust a paradigm of a mechanic getting nothing but nerfed to bits, even since before it was implemented into the game."
You can be relevant whenever you want. I'll wait.
The existence of Bloodlust alone is an abomination. It was a lazy fix for strong loops. And now that we have maps like Hawkins and Badham, why does Bloodlust exist there? Start Removing it. It's not needed there.
"And the only ones in DbD's history to consistently get second-chance mechanics/Perks were Survivors. Period"
Those second chances were then gutted or are balanced. Decisive? Reworked. Mettle? LMAO. Deliverance? If you can't counter that sorry but ur bad. BT? Don't camp and be good enough to not need to.
How do Surviviors counter the Entity blocker on a TL wall? How do they counter Bloodlust at an already unsafe pallet? They don't, the killer just gets those for free for FAILING to catch a Survivior.
This is not worth replying to in an honest way. This is just too wrong and too far gone.
"jUsT aPpLy ThE mAp PrEsSuRe"
It's kinda ironic you're trying to downplay the creator of the DBD Wiki and pretending like what you're saying is in any way right. He outright proved why all your points are wrong, and then some, but you still refuse to admit you're wrong.
"Surviviors aren't gonna flashlight save if you scare them off. Patrol the slug, fake it. Do something that ISN'T walk right into the save and the ######### about it."
Scaring them off does a few things so let's break that down for you since you have trouble seeing anything outside of black and white. You chase them off, that gives the slug time to recover depending on how far you chased them/scared them. This assumes they don't have an exhaust perk ready to roll up and blind, or they didn't just run back in to bait you while letting the slug recover.
Patrolling the slug, or faking it can maybe get you a hit, but this also wastes some time cuz now two survivors are totally safe to work on gens, and you aren't gaining momentum. This also assumes you'll get a hit, and that a surv won't roll up and heal the slug and leave as you get baited. Doc didn't say he walked into a save, he pointed out how broken flashlights were, and why your parroted logic of, "LOOK AT WALL!" just doesn't always work like you all claim.
"You not see where I said it exists on UNSAFE windows? Like TL walls? Ever mindgame a TL wall? It's easy. If a Survivior manages to get 3 good vaults off at a TL wall in 1 chase they should not be cut off from it. Period."
So punish newer players, or newer killer players, and also, if you don't like Entity blockers, just don't use the unsafe windows? Wasn't that your logic about flashlights? "Just don't do it." I can do that too. Also, it takes 3 full vaults while in a chase to block the window regardless of distance, or time so you can really squeeze out time and keep that window open for awhile. The thing is there is A LOT MORE SAFE windows and structures than unsafe, and by your logic simply by using the unsafe structure they deserved to be hit, and downed.
"The existence of Bloodlust alone is an abomination. It was a lazy fix for strong loops. And now that we have maps like Hawkins and Badham, why does Bloodlust exist there? Start Removing it. It's not needed there."
See, the funny thing is most killers agree that bloodlust is trash, because it shouldn't be needed. The fact maps are so poorly designed that they needed to add this mechanic is insane. Either fix the maps, or you can keep dealing with bloodlust, that they have already nerfed multiple times. Also, the Badham maps are safer than ever. Hawkins has a few unsafe pallets, but most of them are totally safe if you know how to run or have Balanced Landing. Just using the portal room you can keep a killer busy for a few minutes due to the hyper safe window, the drops, the pallet, etc.
"Those second chances were then gutted or are balanced. Decisive? Reworked. Mettle? LMAO. Deliverance? If you can't counter that sorry but ur bad. BT? Don't camp and be good enough to not need to."
Decisive wasn't even nerfed, it was buffed, twice. I know you can't possibly see how DS was buffed cuz you somehow think Mettle was balanced, but I'll try. New DS meant no more penalty for multi-ds, didn't know who had it anymore, is a free win end-game, can't be missed, and basically creates a minute long bubble of safety. DS should turn off if I hook another survivor, and end-game. If I have time to down and hook another survivor, and you DS me? ######### that, I didn't tunnel you.
DS also got buffed a second time to 5s stun, got enduring nerfed, then wasn't even reverted back to 3s. Despite the reason for it being 5, being nerfed. Thanks Devs, guess only Pig can get consistency changes right?
Mettle was utterly broken, and should've never existed. It punished killers for playing the game. Not playing "unfair" and ignoring the Survivor Rulebook, no. Just playing the game gave you immunity to downs for a hit and a speed boost. If you honestly think Mettle was ok then your entire opinion can be discarded cuz it's worthless.
Deliverance? How do you counter it without hooking everyone before anyone is saved, or just hard camping the hook for a minute? Oh right, you don't. This is just a really stupid comment, and I don't know what you're trying to say.
Borrowed Time got buffed multiple times, and can be a free win end-game which is why people have issues with it. Also, makes saves totally safe if you choose to just bumrush the hook. You made a really bad play, but now the killer gets punished for it cuz it's unfair the survivor was bad? Where's the logic there?
Also, there are plenty more second chances then, DS, BT, Deliv, and Mettle. You've got exhaust perks, you've got insta heals, Adrenaline, Unbreakable, keys to just get out if the game's going poorly. Killers do not get these, I don't know what you're talking about.
The only one is maybe NOED and that's easily countered.
"How do Surviviors counter the Entity blocker on a TL wall? How do they counter Bloodlust at an already unsafe pallet? They don't, the killer just gets those for free for FAILING to catch a Survivior."
You don't, and you get hit, cuz as you said you played poorly and chose to play on an unsafe area. If I can't catch you without bloodlust on an unsafe pallet, then that pallet is pretty safe. 15s to gain bloodlust, that's a lot of time wasted for a single hit. May not even be a down. There's a reason why bloodlust is seen as a meme, only survivors seem to think it's strong. If map design wasn't so bad, we wouldn't need bloodlust.
As for your other comment, horrible perks? What, BBQ is bad? Pop isn't a gen stall perk? Agi/BS aren't stellar but that does the job. Sloppy wouldn't have slowed the game down, maybe CI, maybe Ruin, but if they were SWF and as good as they played they'd have done the gens anyway. Tru3 put up a vid of him losing 3 gens almost instantly through Ruin. Almost like Ruin is a meme.
I made a misplay but one chase = 3 gens is stupid, and really goes to show that you have no idea what balance or skill is. As for your final response about an ad hom. You literally insulted Doc in your reply then wanna try and act like you didn't do it first? Cute, and at least he was cordial.
Imagine believing that not being able to infinitely run a killer around an unsafe pallet or LT wall is having an "unfair advantage", Lmfao.
I'm sorry but, if you seriously think that the Entity blocker is an unfair mechanic then you're terrible at survivor. Looping is so ######### braindead easy once you figure out how to do it consistently that you'd have to have barely any playtime in this game to make such an absurd claim.
Actually, I'm being disingenuous. You don't even have to loop these days. Just camp the pallet while your team does gens and you win. GG EZ.