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How can so many not understand what free to play means???



  • GrimbergothGrimbergoth Member Posts: 293

    actually that isn't the case . just because a term has been perverted by moder conventions doesn't mean that is its original or intended meaning . This hold true for a lot of terms and words throughout history . If you dont believe me look at a old kids cartoon called the flintstones , whats the last line of the song , "well have a gay old time" . Does that fit with todays meaning of a word and im sure you can easily figure out what one .

    At some point free to play and free play got merged into something else , but free to play originaly meant as it says no cost to play , while free play means no cost play or everything free .

  • GrimbergothGrimbergoth Member Posts: 293

    I can agree and disagree with you on this , its marketing . if you are a kid who relies on giftcards for steam because parents dont want their cc's attached , then steam would be just as guilty as you would end up with odd numbers because giftcards run in even numbers . I agree is psychology , but disagree with it being predatory and would say a marketing ploy .

    What I do commend BHVR for is they are upfront with the costs , you know what you getting and for what price , unlike lootboxes which I consider to be gambling IMO . I dont always agree with the pricing , especially where cosmetics are concerned , but I dont buy them if I think its not worth it .

    Rift pass I will get , why , because one I can make back the cells , two the nurse blight outfit along with the rest of the cosmetics . And in all honesty those who are concerned on if they can do enough of the rift to get the cells back could simply just not pay for it till they are at the last reward of cells then buy it getting the cells back right away , thus nothing ventured , nothing gained or lost until that point .

  • hiChiC Member Posts: 217

    Sorry but I don’t agree. Free to play hasn’t had a change in meaning. Neither has gay for that matter. You’re not using the term correctly.

  • MochanMochan Member Posts: 2,886

    This is simply not true. I was around in the 90's when subscription games started. Free to Play was not used the way you are describing it.

  • HellCatJaneHellCatJane Member Posts: 698

    Being given to and having to purchase is entirely different.

    Free has never changed it's meaning. So, you can't really make that comparison.



    without cost or payment.

    "ladies were admitted free"

    (Free always means free, and there's a huge list on free. "Free as in not confined or controlled" etc.)




    past tense: paid; past participle: paid

    give (someone) money that is due for work done, goods received, or a debt incurred.

    "he paid the locals to pick his coffee beans"

    give (a sum of money) in exchange for goods or work done or in discharge of a debt.

    "he paid $1,000 to have it built in 1977"

    Me spending $10 or $20 dollars out of my pocket, real physical actual cash on anything, is me purchasing that product. It is not free. I don't walk up to a sandwich shop asking, hey what free content you got? Unless they have free samples, they would tell me nothing and move along. Further, if I went and bought a sandwich and consumed that sandwich, I would say I paid for it, in exchange of currency. Now, do I make monthly installments on that sandwich? I would say no. If I continue to go to the sandwich shop, I suppose one could argue the I have a subscription there?

    Now, If i spent money on a sandwich and walked out without a receipt and a cop stopped me and asked did you pay for that? I would NOT tell them, "No sir, I got it for 'Free'". If you pay for something, its paid for.

    The assumption of gaming industry is you pay (This may vary with people). Unless it is stated that it is free, or it is stated it's subscription based. (3 options).

    There are free games, there are paid games (Formerly pay to play?), there are subscription games (Aka a pay to play, or pay to keep playing would be clearer.... to each their own.). Perhaps, that alone caused confusion.

    Free to play is used in contrast to the pay to play, in which obvious payment is required before using the service, this pay to play, sort of got construed, into subscription payment "model". So, games you pay for ONE time, are usually referred to as paid games, or even to some pay to play, or not even at all because it is assumed. (I.E. I paid for that game).

    Free games, need to make money too, so they make certain content or things like cosmetics etc. in order to make a profit. Some employ "freemium" features, microtransactions. Service-base monetization is often the only way to keep those games alive. Usually, this won't employ a pay-to-win but some do. Pay-to-win is when a player can gain any advantage over non-paying players. Content in free games, is usually cosmetic, or adds no advantage etc. Some companies do not need to make a game have ANY paid content and it is purely just "free", I.E. no payment and have ALL the content.

    There are different variations of payment games, but free will always be free.

    I.E. If this game is free, than I would like my money back.

    Also, there are some scammers and such that will say FREE but have hidden charges or fee's in whatever it is. I do not consider those free either. Just because they say it is, doesn't mean it is. That's why I consider it a scam. You are hiding and deceiving a person in order to make profit.

    Note: This game is actually "free" on steam during some weekend special "Free" playtime. But usually no longer than a weekend. For those days it is free and playable to every one, but time limited.

    Free will never change it's meaning with me.... Unless Webster tells me so o.o

  • AvocetAvocet Member Posts: 276

    Thank you for this. Several people have written quality posts like this one. The situation has been described as well as it could be and still it's astounding how adept a certain part of the forum population is at ignoring these posts and going back to budgeting their little auric cells for the upcoming Rift.

  • HellCatJaneHellCatJane Member Posts: 698

    Holy crap. I don't know how I missed this post. It is very well written. I appreciate you taking the time to write this. It's definitely made me re-think how I view their approach.

    Now I am uncertain.

    I like their adding challenges with the rift, so it's no longer just a daily ritual to work on. That aspect is cool.

    However, as far as cosmetics and such, I dislike them having exclusivity, which they are no longer doing (allegedly?). (It sucks to see an older cosmetic you can't obtain and would like etc). And I also don't like that certain ones, you have to pay for and can't earn for free (grinding) even if it is a lot of grinding (like using the shards). I mean they are clearly copying other games approaches.... Like wth is a charm... seems a bit random..Anyways.. But again, they say that some items will still be exclusive, like charms? -- (Which I can understand exclusive for an event, if you have an event every year, get it next year etc.) And like last Halloween, I think the only way to get last years cosmetics is to pay, you can't earn it this year... :sad: I don't see why. (still hoping I am mistaken but I thought someone said you can't).

    And we have some people wanting items and such to have an added advantage like stats or skills to it..... which I hope never happens.

    I'm sort of concerned at what is going to be happening to the state of this game. I understood paying for the game, and even the DLC's. DLC's you could even earn for free, which was great (grind for shards). Except licensed, which made sense. I can even understand offering cosmetics for money NOW, and then making them able to be purchased for "earning" shards or such (grinding) later on.

    The rift idea, does seem "better" than just putting cosmetics up in the shop for basically $10 a set... Because if they continue the approach with the rift its a one time payment ($10) for all cosmetics... unless of course they change this feature in the future. And only if you actually have enough time to complete the rift. (It's kinda like a rebate- bank on people not doing it). To make more money they bank on people not being able to finish. So, then you don't get the money back to buy the next etc. And would instead have to put money in. So, sure it's "better" in theory... but let's be real..

    (Also for those that don't know DBD has racked in millions for them already... just throwing that out there.)

    Ugh. I'm so confused. sigh

    I sad now.


  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 3,091

    F2P is to get you to play. The money comes after.

  • GrimbergothGrimbergoth Member Posts: 293

    I actually love your post , but while you are so intent on explaining to me what free means and always will , you kinda missing the point . there are three word in that phrase , Free To Play , its not free to buy , free to purchase or anything similar , and what does the game cost you to be able to log in and play after you Purchase the Program? yes you need to buy the program to play the game legit , but you can buy the program and never play the game if you choose , as such there is a difference between a purchase of a program and actually playing .

    And to take a page from your book , pun intended : Play -

    : the conduct, course, or action of a gamed

    : a particular act or maneuver in a game: such as

    (1) : the action during an attempt to advance the ball in football

    (2) : the action in which a player is put out in baseball

    : the action in which cards are played after bidding in a card game

    : the moving of a piece in a board game (such as chess)

    : one's turn in a game

    I didn't see the purchase of a game in there , so in essence to play something assumes you have or own what it is you are playing . Thus buying a game isn't the same as playing it .

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,042

    This game ain't free to play to begin with since you have to pay to play the game in the first place

  • GrimbergothGrimbergoth Member Posts: 293
    edited October 2019

    ill be honest that I tire of this argument . Simply put if you go to Walmart and by the new modern warfair or gta are you buy the game or paying to play it ? if you buy the board game clue , bring it home and you and 5 friends sit down and play it , is it costing you or your friends anything to play . everyone assumes that paying for a license or ownership mean they are paying to play , no , to play is action its what you do after you buy . right above your post is websters definition of play , people are assuming that free to play is also free to purchase , never did I say there wasn't a price to buy or purchase the program , but the game is in fact free to play (no cost to move a piece in a game) . think about it , when you went to steam or whatever and you clicked what buy , purchase in order to get the program , that is not the same as playing it , that is acquiring ownership of .

    EDIT: this is also why steam is embroiled in legal issues in france right now , ownership or purchases , according to france I think it is that loot boxes are gambling , and if someone is completing a purchase they are buying ownership and thus have to right to resell such licenses . Giving one the ability to sell games in your steam library , how the outcome ends up , I dont know . But this is what a purchase or buying means and very very different from playing .

  • AvarikuAvariku Member Posts: 608

    The main issue I have with the latest money grab they have implemented is that I still can't take the dlc Ive bought from xbox and use it on pc.

    I should have bought it on the pc instead, sure... but now I've dumped somewhere near 80 bucks into my account on xbox and I can't use it on the pc at all.

    I would be fine with that, except that now, to top it all off, they have a new moneygrab they want to drain their playerbase with, without any compensation.

    I bought this game before it was made free through xbox game pass, I bought it for my wife, I brought in over 10 of my friends to buy this game (many of which didn't stick around because of the blatant issues).

    I refuse to buy the same DLC all over again AND to be slapped in the face by the new premium battle pass BS. I won't even waste my time taking part in it if this is how our "new content" is going to be.

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,042

    If I go to Wal-Mart to buy a game I'm spending 40-60 dollars to play the game its not an inherently free to play game like waframe which started out as free and has a ton of microtransactions but you can still not spend any money and keep whatever money I was going to spend on the game I would have bought at Wal-Mart

  • GrimbergothGrimbergoth Member Posts: 293

    I can totally agree with you on one aspect , it would be nice you be able to transfer from one platform to another , but unfortunately I can see why now . when you buy something on xbox your paying Microsoft , on pc its steam and on PS its sony , so that is 3 separate retailers . Would be like buying a game at walmart and then asking target to refund it . none of those 3 retailer want to give anything away and that is what they would have to do in order for you to transfer from one platform to another . this is also why certain games are able to be done from windows and xbox , because they are both Microsoft .

    I can understand your frustration , I have started a game on one platform only to decide I like it better on another .

  • AvarikuAvariku Member Posts: 608

    pretty sure they still get some of the profit in one way or another, otherwise there would be no point in putting the game on the console to begin with... much less to allow them to make it "free" through xbox gamepass.

    regardless, I'm extremely annoyed with them constantly adding new ways to profit off their playerbase when they already drain wallets through endless dlc.

  • LonlyGamerXLonlyGamerX Member Posts: 86

    Okay i get what you are saying but LOOK AT THE PAST!!! Before you only bought the game and that was it, even for free games the extras in it werent as much as they are today. Like in the old games you could get a game for free and the extras would be a bunch of skins that wont cost more than 3$ or an season pass that cost a total of 30$. Now a days we have season pass that cost 60$ and skins that cost more than 10$ which is why so many players are upset. The problem is the devs think every child/teen playing their game either free or cost believe we are made of money even though we arent. So child cant get a new expansion due to the high prices. Like if for example i got 5$ per month as pocket money for me to get every dlc in dbd i need to wait at least around 10months and not everyone is so paiten where before you could buy at least 2 add ons/dlc for the cheaper price.

    You say we need to consider the point of view of the developers but look at our point of view we have to work hours for thoses of us who can get jobs to get the dlc. Look at some kids they dont get poket money nor can they get a job due to them not being old enough nowadays. I think the problem is the developers are slowly adding in more and more things people can only get though real life money which isnt fair for gamers who arent rice nor have a job. Look at the dlcs. Most at the start up around the spirit you could get either though in game shards mean you need to grind or buy paying real life currency. Now look at most the dlcs. You have to waist real money and cant use shards any more and this probably what the devs will do.

    Look at their character the ones they made themselve i would pay for that due to its their own work were as the dlc linces character are more character they didnt create in the sense they already had an image and back story cuz of the killers being in movies before the game was made which is where i dont want to pay as much cuz its not their work. Look at the new dlc stanger things. It cost 12$ which is extremly expensive. Normally a killer and survivor plus a map cost 7$ (i live in the EU so here it cost that) so basically that is saying to add 1 extra survivor in it cost 5$ extra which would seem a bit over price for me and some player. And by making it feel way over price some will think its more of a scam which is why some complain like for example 1 of my friends thinks its a scam.

    As well if we go even though back then all you got was a game and that was it, no extra dlcs, no extra content and no extra stuff and the price was the same as now. You said it isnt like paying for a subscript by add these stuff in like the battlepass even though it is. Each month if you want the battlepass you have to pay the same amount like a subscription the only differences is this isnt automatic which it might be later on who knows. So what you said is technically false due to the battlepass they added in is like a subscription if you want the cool items. If they added a bunch more cooler stuff and a small amout of auric cells in the free one it will be less of a sub but they dont some games they do this a little bit but for others they done.

    You talked about dedicated servers. I would rather pay 60$ for a game rather than get it free if the dedicated servers are going to be the same as they are now due to for a lot i have seen they are trash. More broken hits are their, if you and the killer lags now you will see more wtf hits which isnt very fun if you want to escape or have fun. As well the skill checks wont always be on the point mean you can fail more skill checks.

    I look at both sides when i play a game and talk about why did they this or they need to change this or this is a scam or this is overprice make it free. The problem is with this game is if you have an opinion about some change or the killers tier list or something like this, most people will come down on you hard about how you dont play this game or this is a troll or your a liar or your idea suck. And even worse the devs make the game more toxic by actually telling in some way to killers they should camp like one perk that basically tells you to camp near the hook. And they dont fix broken stuff instead they try to fix already fixed stuff or balance stuff making them either broken in a good way or in a bad way. Like they nerf in the ptb the insta heals but not the ebony mori. Why did they do that? We had a powerful thing and they had a powerful thing instead of nerfing/changing both they just make one side weaker. I have nothing against most of the moris cuz they are balance except the ebony. You only need to hook them once and then you can end their game resulting in most games for player can last less that 5mins depending on how fast you are found.

    Overall i would rather pay 60$ to 100$ for a game due to most games at those prices dont have lots of bugs, glitch and they try to make fair balances. As well they dont ban people for using over op stuff that is broken they just remove it or change it for example when the legion had the infinte mend, the devs make a in game message saying that if you were using this you could get banned which isnt fair. As well i heard when the wake up perk was broken they would ban anyone who used this (This one about the wake up perk i just heard i dont know if its true). I would say this is bad stuff to do like oh you going to using the ingame stuff well i will just ban you cuz of this. The worst part of it all of the legion broken stuff was some actually didnt get the ingame message. 1 of my friends i talk with later learn nearly before they fixed it that it was a bannable offense from a friend, he never got the in game msg and before anyone says oh many he did and just does read the stuff. He alreays reads all in game messages if they pop up even if he knows whats its about.


    Yes people do need to see if from the developer point of view but as well the devs needs to see the point of view from the people which they dont always do for some reason

  • HellCatJaneHellCatJane Member Posts: 698

    Sooooo. You are deciding to ignore the fact that you have to PAY and spend money in order to buy a game.... in order to classify it as FREE.... Okay. Good to know. Several people tried to let you know that is not what it the actual term FREE TO PLAY means. If you want to say it is "free to play after you own it" that would be entirely accurate. However, classifying this game as free to play, would be incorrect.

    And uh. Yea, it is actually also in the dictionary. Just FYI.


    adjective GAMING

    1. relating to or denoting an arrangement in which basic access to a game is granted without charge while more advanced features must be paid for.
    2. "the reluctance of many gamers to spend anything has led to free-to-play games"

    You do whatever you wish with that knowledge.

    I also respectfully disagree with insinuating this game is Free, in order to argue the dev's/company needs more money to supply content etc. (The initial payment alone is giving them money and supports them...)

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 3,333

    Man's imaginary definition has no impact on the real world - More at 6pm.

    Back to you, Ross, for the weather.

  • starkiller1286starkiller1286 Member Posts: 681

    Team fortress 2 is free to play you pay nothing to install and can just play the game

    Overwatch is pay to play you buy the game once and it is yours to play withoit extra charge

    World of warcraft is subscription based you pay a monthly fee to continue playing after your week/month free trial expires

  • kone19kone19 Member Posts: 72
    edited October 2019

    Free to play no longer means subscription or no subscription. Subscription is now subscription based and free to play is no upfront charge to play the game. So:

    wow is subscription based and fortnight is free to play. Buying the game with no charge beyond the console cost for multiplayer is just normal

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