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Making killers more “consistent” to each other makes the game less fun:

Yeah, this is mostly about Michael Myers losing his full immunity to detection thanks to the “undetectable buff” making him being able to be detected by Spine Chill and Premonition, but is also about the philosophy for these changes that worries me a little: They were made to make EW1 Myers more consistent with other stealth killers, but it doesn’t make sense, because EW1 Myers relies all in stealth way more than the other stealth killers: His movement is slower, did not gain bloodlust and lunge is smaller, but that weaker chase potential was justified because the only way to find him was by using your eyes and ear, it had 100% stealth, no matter the perk that you used. That was made the Mirror Myers build so effective, but no more.

Oh,yeah, now he doesn’t have a terror radius, but besides the fact that you could take out his terror radius with Monitor, 6 meters is still way better than having the 36 meters of Premonition and Spine Chill, so his stealth has been nerfed with this “buff”, and with that, Myers as a whole, even if just a little, is still a nerf.

And yes ,not everybody is going to use those perks, but before, you didn’t need to concern yourself with that at all, now you do and if you are using a Mirror Build, well, you are screwed, because EW1 does not have the necessary tools to counter a Premonition or Spine Child user, contrary to other stealth killers, that can just chase them, this not a good option for Myers. I mean, if they want to be truly consistent, Myers should have the same chase potential in EW1 as other stealth killers, right?

This line of thought also appear in justifying the small nerf for Ghostface of making him lose his cloak after being hit by a pallet just to be consistent with other similar characters, which is my problem. Is not a big problem at all, not a big nerf, just pointless and annoying, and that is the point, it just makes things a little harder for Ghostface just to be “consistent”.

And Plague, that has the same condition, suffers way more than Ghostface, and she shouldn’t, as her Corrupt Purge is already something that has a lot of counterplay, with being temporary, not accessible unless someone cleanses or you use an add-on, so her losing this precious resource for a pallet is stupid in my opinion. Yeah, it doesn’t happen often, but is still feels too punishing for a power that is already so restrictive.

And the thing, is there are still killers with temporary powers that do not lose their powers with a pallet, so shouldn’t EW3 Myers go back to EW2 or Ghostface, instead of just losing his stealth, losing his full charge like Plague and Legion if we are being “consistent”?But of course they don’t, because that is not how they work. Killers should work differently to each other, that it its what makes them fun to play and face, consistency for consistency sake and not taking into account the unique aspects of each killers, just makes them feel the same and more boring.

Comments

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 3,099

    I was not aware Plague loss corrupted purge on pallet slam. 🤣 That's some bull right there.

    so shouldn’t EW3 Myers go back to EW2

    You think you're just making a point but you're really just giving them ideas.

    Yes, the addition of undetectable hurts him more than it helps. Trading 6 tr for 0 does not make up for the lost of full detection immunity.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,050
    edited October 2019

    I think consistency overall can work well but I do think certain conditions with add-ons could and maybe should change them up.

    Take Myers the biggest change undetectable makes is to his EW1 build. A simple fix is to remove undetectable when using those add-ons so it gives more options.

    Plague I can understand the consistency with pallets as she has a range attack so to be able to one shot down someone after a stun from a distance makes that stronger and more viable than the standard M1 killers with timed one shot downs like Myers.

  • TAGTAG Member Posts: 8,015

    Can't the Mirror Myers thing just be fixed by giving his Mirror add-on the ability to make Myers immune to all detection perks at EW1?

  • copperslycoppersly Member Posts: 2,167

    I'd agree with the Plague pallet interaction if she was actually able to get her power off in a normal game. I think the one where she gets it every time a gen is done should be base-kit, or have something that gets increasingly worse the longer you let yourself stay broken so you actually have incentive to cleanse at least once during the match.

    Right now you get it maybe at the end after the gates are open for 5 seconds while they t-bag you on the way out.

  • Financial_StabilityFinancial_Stability Member Posts: 458

    It's not a 1shot though. I don't get why people call Plague's corrupt purge a 1shot. It's just that it can be done in quick succession.

  • White_OwlWhite_Owl Member Posts: 2,825
    edited October 2019

    consistency for consistency sake and not taking into account the unique aspects of each killers, just makes them feel the same and more boring.

    I agree.

    In regards to stealth killers it is particularly relevant, because even if they all are part of the category, each one has its own gimmick: the Wraith is almost invisible, Ghostface can crouch and lean from corners, the Pig can crouch too and can do a dash attack. I think there's no reason for EW1 Myers to not have the immunity to Spine Chill and Premonition as his gimmick in addition to being undetectable.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,050

    But then you are giving her the extra power just by survivors doing the objective which doesn't make sense. That would be like making survivors take three hits for hooking them and why Mom was a bad perk initially as we all saw the results.

    Corrupt purge is the peak of her power. Not cleansing is a counter play used by those confident to run around injured which leaves them with one health state just not vulnerable to going down from a distance.

    One shot down was in reference to them being broken at the time as most are. Her corrupt purge allows for this from a distance easier than other killers and as you stated a really quick down when they are at full health as her power doesn't need aiming like Huntress it can spam a wide area over and over while the timer is going down.

    It's why Myers having a timed one shot doesn't get taken out by pallets as he has a chance to be counter played at most of them at his strongest.

  • Financial_StabilityFinancial_Stability Member Posts: 458

    I understand what you mean now. I still don't like using the term instant down still, considering what it actually is. But I get what you mean.

  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 2,811

    EW1 Mikey should be immune to all detection perks except Kindred. I think it's more important for the game to be fun, for both killers and survivors, than for it to be consistent. Mikey is more fun for everyone if he gives no warning of his presence in EW1.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,247

    I highly doubt this would really change anything... it's a 1 out of 17 chance to get Myers specifically, and at Red Ranks those chances go down even more...

    Of course i'll still play Myers after this update, it won't mess with how I play at all tbh... I just find it odd that other people really think this will ruin the Killer as a whole...

    Seriously, would you rather be seen outside of 16 meters (basekit) in Tier ll as Myers against a Object of Obsession user? Or would you rather be seen only through two perks that're both just detection perks and one has a time limit on when you can use it again and again and again...

    Spine Chill only shows when the Killer is looking at you... so it's not very accurate if you're not on a generator, and Premonition has a time limit and it's only good for that previous statement or when getting someone off a hook...

    Seriously, this isn't a big deal..

  • KhorzadKhorzad Member Posts: 102

    No, but it is 100% going to make him less fun, is a pointless change that is also making him weaker for no reason and no compensation. EW1 Myers triumph at the start of a game (or in Mirror build) relies a lot in people not noticing you in time and with those two perks now being his bane, even if is not going to be 100% of the games, is still going to be enough that I think there will be a difference, as now survivors can realize that you are there and run away before you can properly stalk them, lacking any proper ability to just chase them down. At least, it is going to take more time to go out of EW1, which means worse games in those cases.

  • BunnyTheHuttBunnyTheHutt Member Posts: 1,772

    I mean, let's be realistic here, how often are you actually going too be staying as EW1 Myers if you are not going Mirror Build? I understand what you are saying, but I feel it really isn't that much of a change.

    I feel they do it so buffing/nerfing killers is easier if they all have some similarity. All stealth Killers having Undetectable makes it easier too buff/nerf if they are over/under performing since they now all have a base too start looking at. I'm hoping it means that they'll start looking at stealth killers more, but probably not.

  • CaptainCastleCaptainCastle Member Posts: 537

    So neither of you read the thread. Gotcha.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    I saw Legion losing all his power at a pallet stun...

    *cries in Legion main*

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    It's only considered a 1 shot because nobody cleanses. : P

  • PeenutsButt3rPeenutsButt3r Member Posts: 678

    Versus good spirit I don't see anyway you can mindgame and escape her, I play her and get all 4 kills most of the time. With very good communication SWF they might be able to escape.

  • snozersnozer Member Posts: 776

    The consistency is just an excuse to nerf the better killers.. They are going to take away the good add-ons and replace them with pointless status affects and have harsh negatives to anything good that they had.

  • RydogRydog Member Posts: 2,644

    "Stealth" is supposed to mean something specific. I'm sure you can understand why it would be healthy to tamp down on exceptions in a game that is already full of them.

    Also, Myers isn't meant to stay in EW1 forever. And I know some of his add-ons incentivize or mandate it, but you can't expect them to balance entire mechanics around these kinds of edge cases.

    Also, complaining that Spine Chill counters stealth is a bit like complaining that Iron Will counters Spirit's power, or Calm Spirit counters Doctor. It's how the game works.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,114

    ...

    The way i see it, Myers getting revealed by anything in EW1 is catastrophally worse than Pig or GF or even wraith getting revealed.

    • Pig/GF can cancel her slowed movement at any time.
    • GF simply can stand up and still be stealthed even if SpineChill radars him.
    • Wraith doesnt care and just whooshes after his prey and uncloaks in chase sooner or later.

    Those 3 all have the possibility to just cancel their stealth mode, or to be more precise the negative sides of their stealth.

    EW1 Myers cant get rid of his negative effects unless he sucessfully ambushes (stalks) people. Theres a reason he was initially immune to those effects. EW1 can barely catch up to survivors, especially with the movement speed altering addons.

    I think the complete immunity is part of his identity in EW1, and is balanced by his horrible movement speed he cannot change unless he gets rid of the immunity by tiering up.


    For the really bad idea of canceling EW3 upon getting slammed, unlike plague it is still a melee ability and only has limited duration and ammunition. Really bad idea to let survivors cancel that.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,247
    edited October 2019

    Again two detection perks that require you to face them vs an aura reading perk that sees you anywhere you go because your TR is 0 is a good trade...

    Its entirely your opinion if it'll make him less fun, but to me this will do hardly anything. And like I also said, unless they're actively trying to fight against stealth Killers than this change won't do much of anything.

    Even now I hardly see OoO users before this patch even rolls out, but when I do it destroys Myers if I try to chase that OoO user, but i'm kind of forced too or they'll just do all 5 generators themselves.

    Now, it's only if I look at them. An easy counter? Just don't directly look at the generators or hooked Survivors if you know someone has Spine Chill or Premonition.

  • KhorzadKhorzad Member Posts: 102

    "Not looking at them" is a bad counter against when your ability is based around looking at people and from what I found, Spine and Premonition have a greater range of detection (36 meters) than the distance in which you can stalk people (up to 32 meters, I believe), so they always know that you are there if you want to stalk, which you are going to want to do eventually, which mean that they will know that you are there and run away, which would still make gaining Evil Within in EW1 harder and take more time, which would make, in those matches where you are fighting against those perks, Myers a worse killer,something that was never an issue with pre-undetectable EW1.

    More importantly, that counter doesn’t work for Mirror Myers, that is where this patch hits the most and my main concern because is the most fun build in the game my opinion, and it doesn’t need to be nerfed at all. As others have said, a change to the add-on would suffice.

    Also, from the patch notes, Myers only has Undetectable at EW1, losing it after reaching EW2 and right now, EW1 Myers is immune to OoO, so this patch doesn’t change anything in regards to OoO. You still have to deal with it in EW2 as any other normal killer. The only “buff” is the lack of terror radius, which as explained, is meaningless compared to the full immunity.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,247

    Again, this is not as big of an issue as you're leading it on to be.

    It's a 1 in 17 chance to get Myers, and at ranks like Red Ranks it's even less of a chance because of how the meta works there... Unless that Spine Chill/Premonition user uses those perks on the daily, it's unlikely you'd be paired with someone with those perks. Despite it being rare and can happen, it's still not a giant nerf to his stealth.

    Mainly because after EWl it doesn't even matter at that point... Even if you have Spine Chill proc the Survivor isn't going to instantly know it's Myers and run off to hide. And even if they do, it's one person, are you expecting the entire team to have those two perks? It's highly unlikely.

    And yes, EWll and EWlll are still hit by OoO, would you rather it be on EWl also and have them know exactly who you're and where you'll go to call out to their SWFs team or just solo team in-general?

    Seriously, they'll know exactly where you're all the time in EWl and just make sure nobody ever encounters you... And, the entire patch really doesn't do much of anything besides swap OoO at EWl with Spine Chill and Premonition, and even if they use those perks to hunt Myers users, you can still use OoO on EWll and EWlll so this entire argument is a moot point.

    It literally didn't do anything besides make EWl a little less of a headache on people who hunt Stealth Killers. AND might I add, Wraith cloaked, Pig Crouching, and GhostFace in NightShroud are not seen with OoO anymore... SO! Its actually a good thing this happened since using Nightshroud on a OoO user is a terrible idea, cloaking with Wraith was horrible, and crouching with Pig eliminated any possible stealth with her.

  • LapisInfernalisLapisInfernalis Member Posts: 1,067

    Fix for Myers in EWI: 110% and/or Blood Lust.

    You can reduce his MS with Scratched Mirror to 105% and give him immunity to any detection perks so this Add-on is not broken.

    Simple.

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