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Archive & Player Balance

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  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 685

    Isn't it supposed for the archives' challenges fill the rift? If you complete them all you get to level 70, Ideally.

    I thought it was the general idea from the beginning.

  • PleebeanPleebean Member Posts: 22

    If it takes about 111 hours to finish and it's put for a month (30 days) it's totally achievable for dedicated players.

    111 ÷ 30 = 3.7

    So that's 4 hours a day and you'll have it by the end of the month.

    Alot of people sink way more then that daily. And for the people who don't, you still make most of the money back and still get a bunch of free cosmetics out of it. Seems worth it to me tbh.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 7,999

    I thought that too, but as it turns out, even if you complete every single challenge, you only get about half the Rift Fragments you need. So the rest have to be earned just through grinding XP in normal games, which will apparently take over 100 hours alone.

  • RWoodrowRWoodrow Member Posts: 262

    I'm taking the simple route with the rift pass.

    I will stick to the free tier, play as much as I normally would, and on the last 48 hours before the rift closes decide if I will buy it or not based on my progress I made.

    Rift rewards on the premium track are rewarded retroactively after all, so I lose nothing by waiting.

    If I don't progress enough, however, I will, as people say, "vote with my wallet" and keep my money. Hopefully, in some small way, this will make the devs reexamine how the challenges work or deal with any of the issues that might have led to my lack of progression (DCs, matchmaking, wait times, etc, etc).

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 685

    Yeah, but it isn't as much as calculated because, while you are completing the challenges, you are also gaining xp by playng. Either way it is too much imo.

    Thx for the info.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 7,999

    That is true, but it's still more than what the devs estimated it would take, and I think that's what's bothering people. But I think if just a few key changes were made to the archives, it would meet that 70-80 hour completion mark, and no one would feel like it was unfair or unattainable the way a lot of people seem to be feeling now.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 685

    It's on the ptb, even the expiration date is simply for reference. They might change it when it comes to live servers I HOPE.

  • MookywolfMookywolf Member Posts: 676

    @SpaceCoconut ok, i do want to add something else to this, as i didnt see it anywhere in your math, but you do also get 300 bonus xp for your first match of the day as both survivor and killer, so you can earn a bonus 600 xp each day. thats of course if you play both sides.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 7,999

    What's on the PTB? The archives? I was aware of that, that's what I'm basing my information off. But I too hope they make some changes when it comes to release on live servers, and honestly I'd be very surprised if they didn't. Otherwise, what's the point of testing it on the PTB and gathering everyone's feedback?

  • LoneBighornLoneBighorn Member Posts: 17

    You should be hitting 500 exp around 8 minutes and 20 seconds into a match, not twelve. I think the cap is 600 at 10 minutes or something? Plus you get a free 600 xp per day.

    'But I don't play both sides' you might say. Well you get the 300xp bonus whether you play 10 minutes or 30 seconds. Do that every day of a battle pass and it's a free 37.5 rift fragments. Assuming the rift is 50 days? Idk.

    Anyway, I'm buying in because I have no life, I encourage casual players to sit it out, and as a matter of fact I'd love to see how far the average gamer can get on the free track.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 685

    Archives and rifts are on the PTB. Tomes are also there, but you can't access them.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 7,999

    Right, yes, I was aware of that. Technically, the Tome is on the PTB, that's what the area where you get challenges and such is called. Only thing that isn't accessible at the moment is lore fragments. But they've come up with so many new names for things all at once that I don't blame you for getting them mixed up, lol!

  • SnapshotSnapshot Member Posts: 754

    I do not think the devs are allowed to talk about these decisions as they may have strict requirements on the amount of time players have to spend in-game grinding so they are literally forced to unlock things with commercial Auric cells if they wanna reach them in-time when just casually playing, which is a great business model and in turn makes BHVR more money of course.

  • LoneBighornLoneBighorn Member Posts: 17

    Even better, that's over 50 rift fragments then, assuming you like cutting it close :p

  • HorusHorus Member Posts: 850

    Yeah @Peanits might wanna read this thread

  • SleepyWilloSleepyWillo Member Posts: 640

    He's been tagged in multiple threads like this. Devs are staying very quiet on this one...

  • fenshingfenshing Member Posts: 66

    I dont know if anyone has brought this up yet but wouldnt you be earning rift fragments from devotion at the same time your doing the challenges? Im not on PC so I dont know about how it is working on the PTB... but if the math is right then...

    (111 hours + challenges at the same time) / 70 days = a bit over 1 and half hours a day.

    Add in variances for wait times and challenges you struggle with, it still seems manageable... if you Do earn fragments from devotion at the same time you finish challenges which Im guessing is true.

  • SleepyWilloSleepyWillo Member Posts: 640

    Yes thats how it'll work. But they initially said it should only take ~70 hours to complete (an hour a day). Player estimates are showing its around 50% more time. Not to mention some of the challenges seem almost impossible and borderline trolly for the community (Sacrifice multiple survivors using NOED during the EGC, etc). Its like they looked at what people most complained about and specifically implemented it as a challenge. I'm kinda surprised there isnt one that says "As a survivor on your first down - DC" lmfao

  • fenshingfenshing Member Posts: 66
    edited October 2019

    Having challenges that a stupid hard is this thing I figured was coming but an hour a day vs. an hour and thirty or forth minutes, of game time, just doesnt look like doomsday to me. I play board games, real board games not like Monopoly!, and the makers always downplay the playtime on the box. You always have to add like and 30 minutes to an hour per player to get a real estimation of how long a game takes. Why? Because every company uses their own data to come up with those numbers. In board games they use the time it takes for people who know the game and rules inside and out to play, not someone new or learning. 70 to 80 hours is was BHVR's data says it should be but of course it wont be. They even say they will take in feedback to make sure its not unfair.

    "Our goal for our first Tome and Rift is to base our completion targets on the average daily play time of 1 hour/user, provided by our internal data. Given this, completion of The Rift and all its rewards should take roughly 70 to 80 hours of gameplay, provided players accomplish Challenges from each role.  

    We want everything to feel achievable within a reasonable amount of time for all players, to not feel like any reward is unfairly out of reach. We will be gathering all sorts of feedback to ensure The Archives is enjoyable for many updates to come, for all players."

    I just dont get the whole "the sky is falling" reaction. While I do trust BHVR to mess stuff up... I do also trust they will try and make things right in the end. Hallowed Blight last year shows that.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 7,999

    I'm with you. If it is as bad as people say, I trust that they'll be doing their best to make it right.

    But also, Monopoly is a real board game. Just because it's popular doesn't make it inferior. No need to be so pretentious about it.

  • fenshingfenshing Member Posts: 66

    Yeah. I dont think they are trying to mess over the player base.

    Oh and the Monopoly thing was just a joke. Not being pretentious, just trying to bring some levity to a conversation that I think is a bit overly serious. But old roll and move games are really outdated, except maybe Clue. In all seriousness I dont care what people like to play.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 1,663
    edited October 2019

    First thing: why is everyone so mad about not completing the rift??!? It is about COSMETICS! And the lore stuff and bonus BP are still available when the rift closes! No one HAS to buy the rift and has no drawback if he doesn't. And you still get some fancy things for free if you don't pay anything! And another thing: if you don't play this game like daily, why everyone expects to get everything for no effort? What about the people grinding the game? "Yay, I'm done in 3 days, 67 to wait for new content..."

    Back to the maths, please correct me if I get anything wrong. Just as it is shattered around in several posts I wanna summarize to be sure everything is correct:

    • So we need 700 fragments, 352 from challenges, 348 from grinding.
    • We have 70 days to do so (confirmed?) which means up to 42k XP from first survivor/killer.
    • Means 278.400 XP - 42.000 = 236.400 XP
    • If ideal, an exact 10 minute match grants the max possible XP of 600
    • Means ideally 3600 XP per hour, which is ~66 hours
    • adding time for queue, spending bloodpoints and every second a match takes longer than 10 minutes (and this is a really hard to estimate factor)

    My rough guess is that I play 3 games an hour, sometimes I'd rather say more like 4 games but I also notice the difference in queue times when playing killer, solo survivor or SWF. But let's just stay for now with the view, that this is a queue (and server?) problem, not the rift problem, that needs to be fixed.

    That means, the roughly guessed reality is 50% of the ideal. Which means I need to play 2 hours a day on average, to get to it. And I just need to play more than that, if I don't manage to get all challenges done in this time. Whatever takes longer. And to be honest, I know people that spend more time on CandyCrush on their mobile. If you play less, you really can't expect the game to grant you all the content, just because you want it. If you pay money on cosmetics, I kinda expect you to play more than that.

    @HellCatJane The problem with last years halloween event was that you could not cleanse the flowers anymore as survivor once you finished your 30 items, making it impossible to get the bonus blood points afterwards as well as survivors not spending any more offerings to create the flowers. That's why a lot of people switched to killers and wrecking the queues. Probably the challenges might shift this a little but I guess not much more than people are getting influenced by dailies of the "wrong" role

    And one more thing to you all. Nice you promote DCs to get your sheet done. Sure it happens, sure there are people who never learn. But DC is not a problem caused by the engine, it is caused by the freakin premature donks that simply don't wanna play the game when it not runs by their perfect world rules. I'd really like to see some more critical feedback on this behaviour than suggesting "yeah, this will happen, this is normal, you know, not to say it is ok pls do so". If we could more point out that this is simply donkey behavior and point with our fingers at those who do, saying "you ruin our game!" we might get better to a fix of that, rather than blaming BHVR to not build the perfect game for all the whineys out there. Amen

  • KaelumKaelum Member Posts: 948

    No one should buy the “Rift Pass” unless:

    1. You have completed the Rift prior to the Rift ending, and thus will receive everything on the Rift, including your 1,000 Auric Cells back, or
    2. It is the last day of the Rift and you are happy with the items that you will receive for spending 1,000 Auric Cells.

    The cosmetics have 0 (zero) actual value. It is up to you to determine if the items in the store are worth the virtual values that BHVR has placed on them.

  • smappdoodasmappdooda Member Posts: 255

    This is my feeling too. I play killer only and so my survivors are pretty much useless out of the gate. It also doesn't thrill me to play them. I have and I can but...

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 1,663
    edited October 2019

    Maybe it would be an idea to split the rift into 4 paths? Each a free and premium for killer and survivor progress? And then the survivor paths just containing charms and cosmetics that are just for survivors or both, and vice versa

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