Ebony memento mori's should activate after everyone has been hooked once (with the exception of disconnected survivors).
Make it work after everyone has been hooked once or make it work for a maximum of 2 survivors.
1st option would prevent stuff like tunneling and work well with the many killer players who like to run BBQ.
2nd option would still make the offering very strong, just not nearly as broken.
Second hook, that way it's not so oppressing like it is now, and hopefully would reduce the dc count with it.
That is actually a good idea most of the ideas people have for nerfing ebony moris is removing them entirely or making them useless but if you could work fine
They are fine, and are 85% Avoidable.
You can loop a killer who has a Mori and get away just fine.
-shrugs- plus it does take more skill than Insta-Heals...
I'd rather see hex perks get a buff than see the only "Killer have fun" option be nerfed into the ground.
The only "killer have fun" option? That's the only way that a killer can have fun? Really? By cutting their objective down by a third?
And you're right, it shouldn't be nerfed into the ground and some hexes should be buffed. But Devour Hope is one of the most well balanced Hexes in the game. It's a Hex that's incredibly powerful if used correctly, takes some work to accomplish (IE, doesn't hand you a win on a platter), and has counterplay.
Most other Hex: Perks do nothing for you and can be destroyed, wasting a slot but Devour is definitely not in the category of bad perks. If you're bad with Devour, it's definitely not the perk's fault.
Mori's should remain strong but they should be as strong as other iridescent items. As strong as BNPs, the new (and improved) styptics, the rainbow map, the skeleton key.
All of those are strong without being a free win for someone with a brain cell (except for the key, the key takes no thought and deserves some slight changes just like moris do)
Presently an Ebony cuts all survivor lives down by a third, if you're only looking at health states. That means that survivor play time is cut down by one third overall. Killers can't have fun if gens pop at the speed of light. Survivors can't have fun if the amount of time the game is balanced around for them to play gets a giant chunk of it removed with no counterplay at all.
For a better example, lets imagine survivors had an offering that cut the gens down to 4 and one gen started slightly above 50% completed and couldn't be kicked down below that amount. That is the equivalent of a mori. 1.66~ gens is a third of your time stripped from you with no say in the matter.
So yes, they shouldn't be nerfed into the ground but they definitely shouldn't be as strong as they are. Especially given we haven't even talked about the extra time lost by the fact that mori animations are faster than sacrifice animations and don't require the killer to risk a decive, flashlight save, etc or waste time carrying the survivor anywhere else, giving the killer significantly more down time than they'd normally have.
Killers who think that moris are perfectly fine as is, are no different than survivors who thought that the old BNP was okay.
I’d say they’re fine if some killers didn’t Mori someone instantly after their first hook
It's the only offering that lets a killer relax in a game instead of tryharding with the meta build to stand a chance.
A game can go where a mori is wasted. The same cannot be said for some of the tools that survivors have access to.
My perspective is more about that the item itself shouldn't have limitations because scummy people use it that way. People will turn and say: "What about instaheals?" Well, they needed to be nerfed because there was no counterplay to them. Moris can be used, but it's not a guaranteed win. Sure, the game is shifted heavily to killer, but survivors can still use stealth, outrun and lose the killer: and still win. They require wasting killer time, they punish them by making certain great perks less useful, give less BPs, and the best a killer can do if they mori off first hook is just a black pip. It doesn't reward killers the same way perks like DS/BT can for making poor choices. If you mori at the wrong time, then survivors will absolutely punish you for it.
Survivors can easily find another game too, so it's not like they lose as much time loading or anything like when a SWF ruins the game of a killer.
That's why I advised Hexes be buffed before giving killers another nerf. Because Hex perks have the potential to be strong, but as of right now there is no downside to cleansing them (unless it's H:HG, but I don't see that often).
You're also comparing a one time offering to survivor items which can be used in multiple games if used correctly.
No, not really. A mori is about skill, where gens require way less skill to fix.
The only real argument I see against moris are against players who use them as 1 hook moris, which are just... boring. There's less skill involved playing that way with a mori, but I wouldn't force people to play a certain way.
Let's face it, survivors can absolutely ruin a killer's game more easily than a killer ruin a survivor's game.
should be completely removed from the game
Someone here had a good suggestion: Moris only work after every Survivor was hooked one time.
I'm open for the second hook idea.
But if it became implemented, the Blood On Your Face trophy just got a whole lot trickier.
Here's my thought process on moris:
Make the Ebony act like the Ivory.
Remove the Ivory.
Keep Cypress the same, but make it common.
Personally I like the idea of tying the mori to the amount of hooks or gens, but I'm not sure on which one.
In 3 years I have never seen a killer with an Ebony Mori being relaxed. They all use them with their most powerful builds available.
Well, I see it as an offering to let me use bad builds for a change, but a lot of people take their cues from monto's toxic vids.
Yes, the urge to kill is amazing, lol