DS at its worst is a free life, and at its best single-handedly wins games. It lasts an entire minute in a game that can be over in 4-5; and can turn you borderline invincible if played well lategame.
Yeah, that's really all you need to know. Not sure why people are still arguing that it is not overpowered.
SO what you are saying is I need to count for 4 different people, up to 60 WHILE dealing with the pressure of being a Killer.
Yeah, you arn't listening and I don't see your point to just wait it out, cause that isn't how it works in my experience. People use it to exploit how it works. Body Blocking cause you have BT or DS for example. But sure, next time i'll stare at that locker longingly for 10 seconds then get hit with Head-on and DS even then cause I miscounted by 1-5 seconds.
Have fun in the Fog, man. I'm done with this.
They cant bodyblock from inside a locker, if they body block, slug them.
Edit: also shout out to the "I can't keep track of DS timers therefore I shouldn't have too" logic
Tracking DS timers is a skill, not an impossibility.
Wow, so you pick that out of everything I say. I meant in general, not from inside the locker. Duh. This just proves that you arnt trying to listen or understand and just want to pick apart what anyone says to you to prove yourself "Right" even if it makes no sense. Good Day.
Edit: Slug them, so they can get picked up, Unbreakable, or just DS me cause I miscounted. Mhm.
I hate it when survivors call NOED a crutch perk, then turn around and defend a crutch perk like Decisive Strike. Even the worst player in the world can get mileage out of Decisive Strike, so long as they hit the skill check.
Your survivor main is showing.
Since you want to insult me a bit, I'll come back for one more thing.
You go play a lower Tier Killer at even a decent rank. Then while you are juggling everything else, count to 60 for each survivor when you down them. Or even when you hook them. See if you can keep track of it.
If you miscount, that means you made a mistake and got punished for it, thats how the game works.
There's a good chance they're going to get picked up while slugged, but the point of slugging them isn't so that you can hook them later, the point of slugging is to temporarily make that survivor do nothing until someone saves (unless they have unbreakable, but thats two perk slots, and also only works once.) You slug them to apply pressure while you get someone else downed and on the hook. Slug one person, chase another, another person has to pick up the slug. Thats one person on gens. If no one saves now you have one slug, one hook, and only two free survivors to actually do something. Chase another and the game is basically on the shoulders of that last survivor to do some saving before the entire game comes crashing down. They probably will save but guess what, no one is working gens. That means you're gaining progress and they're not.
Of course if you're playing a low tier killer you're going to struggle, that's not a problem with DS. That's a problem with the killer needing buffs. With a low tier killer, you will struggle against optimal teams regardless of whether they DS you or not. You can't really consider perk balance from the perspetive of 1 killer vs a survivor team you have to consider all the killers. Ideally the weaker killers would be more on a level to deal with DS like a billy, but that's not a DS problem. You get to a point where you have to say either the weaker killer must be stronger or the stronger killer that can deal with DS must be weaker because the stronger killer has no issue with it but the weaker killer does.
Also if you can't keep track of DS in your head, literally just use a stop watch on your phone. Anytime someone gets unhooked press start, use the lap feature for more than one DS. If you have more than two DS active at any given time that means you already have really good pressure on the survivors and can typically afford to eat a DS even if you do make a mistake. Also having 3+ DS active at once is going to be a rarity vs optimal teams unless you're playing a high tier killer.
If you take it as an insult when I say it's a skill to keep track of DS timers, you need to take things a bit less personally. It was by no means an insult.
What are you talking about? I literally provided you a valid, constant working strategy to prevent it.
Well it supposed to stop tunneling, which it does.
I don't think it's supposed to be: "Hey it's lategame and I have DS, let me facetank a hit to BT unhook someone in the killers face, then get hooked, deliverance myself off, and laugh my way to the exit gate" which is currently how I use it now. Total crutch perk for sure, but it's a ton of fun to use.
At least you took the time to explain your reasoning this time. I approve of that. I still think that we should just agree to disagree though. I hold the idea that 60 seconds is too long, and you think the opposite. There is nothing wrong with that. I am glad that you DID take the time to type that all out and think about it. It's rare to see someone on here that really thinks there post out. So for that, you have my respect. Now, and I mean this really nice just to give context, I Do hope you have fun in the fog.
Just to clarify, I think 60 seconds is a fine amount of time as it is. I wouldn't mind it being lower if the timer didn't tick down while slugged though. That way you can't just avoid the perk by slugging but the abuse able situations are also reduced. I also wouldn't mind DS deactivating when someone else gets hooked as long as it doesn't deactivate while slugged.
okay THAT i agree with. Make it turn off when someone else is hooked. That's a good idea.
how is going into a locker a exploit?
It’s not the going into lockers per say, it’s the way survivors treat DS like they just acquired the Super Mario Invincibility Star for 60 seconds. The perk is RARELY used as the devs intended anymore.
Devs have recently said that there are no plans to change DS in the near future.
Exactly. More often than not, DS is used as a tool to get away with plays that would otherwise be suicidal. Or it's used as a crutch by mediocre survivors to escape after they screw up.
I don’t think your last sentence is fair. There ARE killers that will camp, hoping unsafe saves occur, and continue to immediately tunnel who was unhooked. Survivors faced with that situation need to have at least one tool they can use that doesn’t rely on their teammates (BT).
Sure, but as it is, DS does too many things too well. It needs some sort of drawback to discourage using it in every perk build that isn't pure stealth.
Right now, most perk builds at the higher ranks are virtually identical. At least one of the following perks is in almost every high-ranking build: Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, and Dead Hard. The meta revolves around having one second chance after another, no matter how many times the killer finds you and chases you down. It's beyond absurd when you can down a survivor 5 times and still not kill them.
Which is why you only see Nurse and Spirit at the highest ranks. They're the only ones who can find survivors and end chases fast enough to keep up with all the BS.
My suggestion is to make DS an Exhaustion perk. It still only works once, but it also causes Exhaustion, so you can't use it in tandem with Dead Hard and the like.
Actually I like that idea. Once it is active for those 60 seconds survivors should be afflicted with exhaustion.
People wanting to make the best of what they have and try to use perks as efficient as possible is not the definition of abuse. The fact that it's annoying doesn't mean you can just put incorrect tags on players.
And your opinion doesn't change mine. They are doing it cause the perk allows them too, but was not designed for it. So, thank you for trying I suppose.
Well, I was thinking that Decisive would trigger Exhaustion when you used it, and can't be used while Exhausted, but your idea could also work.
That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Just like how killers try to use their tools as efficient as possible. What else would you expect from your enemy?
It's not a fact. I can go look up the meaning of the words if you like.
Also, I'd expect them to go all out, duh. But that doesn't mean abusing something like that. Guess who doesn't tunnel, camp or even slug much and yet can get to Red ranks as Legion? Me.
The point you are trying to make has no barring on my thoughts to this. Killers have far less to exploit as far as I know, and not alot of those would be perks.
Edit: before you call me out for bragging, I said that to underline that using things in a manner it wasn't made for isn't being "As efficient as possible", it's being exploitative. After all, what do survivors not like? Tunneling, camping, slugging. Those are parts of the game used for the wrong reason. I am merely proving my point more.
Literally just dont tunnel. Go for the unhooker or even slug. It has many work arounds (much like NOED). Stop complaining that you cant tunnel off the hook... Sheesh.
Spoken like a true survivor main.
Decisive Strike allows you to get away with extremely reckless plays that would otherwise be suicidal. It's rarely used for its actual intended purpose of preventing tunneling.
If "Just don't tunnel" was an actual good counter to the perk, DS wouldn't be in virtually every high-ranking Survivor build.
DS allows you to do whatever you want, 60 seconds. No punishment.
I dont main either side. If I know theres DS I eat it - I dont encounter too many in low rank games I play and if there is it doesnt effect me (because I dont tunnel). Its easily countered. Yes it can be annoying but dont fall for the bait. Its like when a survivor teabags - theyre trying to bait you into chasing them so their team can do objectives. Dont fall for the obvious bait and dont tunnel. Or slug if you feel the need to play that way...
I would love to. I would like to know which dictionary defines ''efficient usage of tools'' as abuse.
And nice you can make it to red ranks by not camping, slugging, tunneling or whatsoever but that doesn't take your right away to do so, as annoying as it is from the opponent's perspective. In a survivors versus killer game it's absolutely logical that your opponent will make it as difficult as possible for you, that is not abuse.