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Sole Survivor: Change

NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767
edited October 22 in Feedback and Suggestions
Prologue

This perk is pretty reliant on Object of Obsession to be useful, so this change will primarily remove the need to use Object of Obsession for this perk to be useful. 🤗


Sole Survivor

You lose hope when going against impossible odds.

When further than 64 meters to the killer, you will be invisible to the killer's point of view.

Each survivor killed or sacrificed, this effect is strengthened in your favor by 12/14/16 meters.

When you are invisible to killer, the killer will not see any changes you make to the environment until you are visible to the killer.

Increases your chances of becoming the killer's Obsession.


Reviewing Changes:

When further than 64 meters to the killer, you will be invisible to the killer's point of view.

Pretty straightforward, when further than 64 meters to the killer, you are completely invisible to the killer. Think about pre-work Freddy when you literally could not see him until he slept you.


Each survivor killed or sacrificed, this effect is strengthened in your favor by 12/14/16 meters.

Remember above how I said you are invisible to the killer? Each survivor killed or sacrificed allows you to get closer to the killer while remaining invisible.


When you are invisible to killer, the killer will not see any changes you make to the environment until you are visible to the killer.

This can be pretty hard to understand, but I will try to be as thorough as possible!

Let's say you're invisible to the killer, and you destroy a regular totem. Assuming you remain within the range you are invisible to the killer, if the killer checks that totem, it will look untouched to the killer. However, the moment you are NOT invisible to the killer, the totem will look destroyed to the killer.

Let's say you're invisible to the killer and you repair a generator with a survivor. Assuming you remain within the range you are invisible to the killer, if the killer checks that generator, they will see the progress your teammate made on that generator and not the sum of progress you both made together. However, the moment you are NOT invisible to the killer, the generator will now display the progress you both made to the killer.


Concerns:

You may say, NMCKE has lost his mind with this suggestion! However, I beg to differ because the perk, to be at its strongest, requires only one survivor to be remaining in the Trial. Therefore, if all survivors use Sole Survivor, only one survivor can get the strongest benefit.

This may encourage leaving survivors to die, but this perk also doesn't guarantee an escape when you're alone in the EGC — it just eases the pressure if the killer sees both Exit Gates and is being lazy.


Epilogue

Overall, this change shifts Sole Survivor to be more stealthy and it helps unfortunate survivors who face almost impossible odds.

Your feedback is appreciated! :D

@Peanits @MandyTalk @Gay Myers (Luzi)

Post edited by NMCKE on

Comments

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 2,813

    Umm, you realize this would not only be broken in half, but very very very hard to program?

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    Yeah, I understand that this may take time to implement, but I would rather have a finished product instead of a rushed one where they slap some number buffs and call it a day. D:

    Don't get me wrong, number buffs are great, but sometimes that's not always to solution to making a perk better.


    Also, not to be rude in any way, what do you mean by:

    You realize this would not only be broken in half...

    I'm assuming you are saying this is broken? If so, why do you think it's broken? Is there something I missed?

    I'm open to discussing if we can talk this out! :P

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member, Trusted Posts: 11,640

    You’d be completely invisible while being the last survivor? This would remove all skill needed to escape as the last survivor, might work with some nerfs to it but not like this.

  • Ark_the_BonsaiArk_the_Bonsai Member Posts: 860

    I'd lower the numbers quite a bit and remove the "can't see environmental changes" part (for coding purposes on the second piece)


    It's an interesting idea.


    Personally I'd prefer the current iteration to get a buff and work more like distortion. Block aura and scratchmarks while within its effective range. IE, when you're the last survivor you wouldn't leave any scratchmarks. With one and two deaths your scratchmarks would be hidden at the same range your aura would be hidden.


    Also maybe make it clearer when your aura is and isn't hidden with some sort of effect on the perk.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    Yikes, I see what you mean, I made a mathematical mistake! It's supposed to be 16 meters stronger in your favor at tier III Sole Survivor. :P


    Here's the scale depending on survivor deaths at Sole Survivor III:

    4 Survivors: Invisible when further than 64 meters to the killer.

    3 Survivors: Invisible when further than 48 meters to the killer.

    2 Survivors: Invisible when further than 32 meters to the killer.

    1 Survivor: Invisible when further than 16 meters to the killer.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member, Trusted Posts: 11,640

    That is better, no complaints now that that’s cleared up. :)

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 3,654
    edited October 22

    Here's why I don't exactly agree with this, though your concept is interesting. For one, it would require BHVR to code in the possibility of invisibility for any Survivor using this perk...

    And since that code doesn't exactly exist except for say, Freddy's old code... (And new code, it now just shows him within a set amount of meters.) So to add a code to the Survivor sided client just for a perk would require a PTB in itself, since if the code messes up or something is bugged, and Survivors find a way to abuse the perk to stay invisible indefinitely or something... than it would be a big issue.

    It's not really possible to code in the ability to hide totems from a distance, or prevent grass from being moved, etc... Since that would A.) Require the Survivors to have no collision since it's collision based. And B.) Would look terrible once you get close enough to say... a totem being already broken, a pallet being dropped out of nowhere with no noise notification, a generator not popping until you get close, those are just some examples to how it wouldn't really work...

    Another thing, having the range for this to decrease (Or increase or whatever) each time a Survivor dies would literally almost make the Survivor impossible to find depending on the map and where they're... They would never be found, it would be impossible almost. The main issue that Solo Survivor poses... is that during the EGC, if the hatch were to be closed by the Killer with gates not that far from each other and depending on the Killer if its Freddy, Wraith with speed add-ons, trapper, etc... would make it pointless anyways.

    I feel perks that revolve around the last Survivor should allow the last Survivor to just gain an exit gate opening boost... by like say 5% or 10%, and it can be stacked with Wake Up! to make it 10% or 15%.

    Of course this would make it almost impossible for the Killer to get the last Survivor if the map has a long route to the gates... so you could just give it the ability to not stack with Wake up! or the perks only add up to 10% increase to opening Exit Gates... Which isn't OP but it isn't bad either.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    Hmm, it's not a bad idea, and like I said, I don't mind number buffs — it's just that this perk is so sensitive to number buffs.

    Think about Spirit Fury and pretend the developers decreased the requirement to 1 pallet instead of 2 pallets — that made the perk 100% easier to activate when you just changed the value by a quantity of just one.

    However, I do like the suggestion on making the perk become more like distortion, it would be a great addition! :)

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    I agree, this would be a pain to code, but I would prefer something more than just slapping on number buffs. Also, I'm okay with number buffs, but not when the perk is so sensitive to number buffs (see my previous comment above).


    Survivors can stay invisible for a while if they have a decent effect and know your position, but in my opinion, it will not matter at all if that doesn't help you escape.

    The environment thingy is tricky, but that's the whole point of Sole Survivor — give the killer as little information as possible from the perk owner. I know there will be some edge cases like pallets appearing to be standing when they are actually dropped, but I already thought about everything.

    If you want, I can cover the edge cases and explain what will exactly happen! :P

  • Ark_the_BonsaiArk_the_Bonsai Member Posts: 860

    When I was considering numbers before I was thinking in relation to your invisibility. You hadn't corrected it for GrootDude yet and I saw an impossible to find Sole Survivor

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 3,654

    If you want you can, but my point was that it's kind of impossible to have corn not move when they walk into it, grass, etc... Cause those work off of collision with the players model.

    You can't exactly remove it without removing collision from the Survivor in-general. And again, if the perk works off of helping the last Survivor in the EGC... than it isn't really going to do much. OR it'll be extremely OP since most Killers don't go right up to the gate to see if progress is being done, if say... the perk negates the lights from turning Red than it would make going to really far gates almost impossible... You'd rather just let them escape and save yourself the time.

    You don't really need to number buff the perk, the perk doesn't even have increased Exit Gate opening progress in it...

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 2,813

    As I was typing my reply to this, I realized how you balanced it. If you get close to the survivor then the Gen would poof back to where it's supposed to be so they can't just hide and do gens hidden. Something about it still seems off though, might be weird if EVERYONE ran it. I just know that being bale to see things at a glance to see where I need to go is REALLY important as Killer. Maybe it's just cause i'm VERY pragmatic...

    I'm always willing to talk things out too as long as people listen to me too.

    Also, yes, I too would rather wait for things to be worked on and done right.... (looks at Legion... *sighs and keeps waiting*)

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    This is where you have to judge distance as the killer and assume what exactly is 16 meters. 😁

    Having this knowledge, when you're around 8 meters to the Exit Gate, you can have a persudo Whispers if you walk to an Exit Gate and it suddenly shows you the correct amount of progress.

    What does that mean? Well, that means the last survivor is no longer invisible, and they are within 16 meters to you — start looking! 🤓


    Collision can be hard to program, but the developers had done it before with pre-rework Freddy. It might take some time, but it's something worth taking a look at! :D

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 3,654

    It could work, but the thing is we'd also have to have a PTB for one perk... Since if the perk has massive game breaking bugs than you'd need to see that before it goes LIVE...

    Or a lot of Survivors will magically find some work around or something, who knows... Some people find a lot of hidden quirks in perks you wouldn't expect.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    I definitely agree, I can imagine a bug where a survivor is permanently invisible to the killer!

    Wait, wouldn't this bug stop tbaggi— nevermind, a PTB will nessaracy! :P

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 3,654

    The idea of a PTB around one perk though is kind of... not great for the dev teams resources though? So I'd imagine it would be paired with other PTB changes, like a new Killer, a rework or buff, etc.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    Definitely, I can see this getting tested with other changes on the PTB!

    Through, with some tweaks! 🤓

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 7,046

    What if you get Bear Trapped, set off a Hag trap, spawn Doctor Illusions that the Doctor can normally see, etc?

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    Depends on what's going on: Is it affecting the Sole Survivor user and are they invisible?

  • Gay Myers (Luzi)Gay Myers (Luzi) Mod, Co-ordinator Posts: 910

    I think a lot of people raised a good concern - the issue of coding it and that the manwork required might make it not worth it to rework it for a whole perk.

    It is definitely a interesting concept, but the other issue would be, what indicators would you have for a survivor being around these meters? Like I could walk around and have a easy time. How does it interact with OoO as a example? Obsession perks, etc.?

  • ElkElk Member, Trusted Posts: 1,010

    Oops! I put this in the wrong place at first. Haha.

    NMCKR has lost his mind!


    Jokes aside for now. This sounds very good! To clarify, if a survivor is doing a gen 64meters away no progress is shown to the killer. So if the killer goes to you, the killer would automatically see your progress for what you already have done, because you are within 64 meters. So if just say everyone is dead, but you. You start the exit gate, leave. The killer won't see any progress done to it at all?

    Hmmm....would scratch marks count? Crows? Vaults? Well, when i think the environment, i think Crows at least.

    Even i say these type of things to other people about their perk designs. What if... What about swf...This may cause...So for 'This may encourage leaving survivors to die' I think this would be a problem for a week or two, after that people would go back to their own builds. Only the few will keep it for a while.

    Like i just said 'What if...' So what about the killer with a coordinated swf. This perk would make it harder for some killers to stop this. But that's like late game, maybe early game. A killer should be able to go to an "Unworked gen" and kick it. Only if it was Sole Survivored to reveal it's true progress. It can waste a killer's time, but at least there is a counter to it.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 7,046

    So that would mean Killer Powers are affected by it?

    In that case they might not wanna do it.

    Tinkerer got changed because they had to update it everytime.

    Now it wouldn't be everytime, but i wonder if they'd find it worth it when they can think of something else for the Perk.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    I could just change it to have the game hide all forms of evidence while invisible to the killer, and not make it power specific.

    Evidence Includes:

    • Scratch Marks
    • Crow Movement
    • Generator Progression
    • Exit Gate Progression
    • Noise Notifications
    • Health State
  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767
  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 7,046

    I don't know, I already question that from Bear Traps being affected.

    Catching them with those is never easy if they pay attention and aren't in a chase, yet now you wouldn't know if they make that mistake because they had a Perk.

    Just realized it should also be a really good Perk for trolls wanting to unnecessarily lengthen the match if both use it, or scaredy cats hiding until their only remaining fellow dies.

  • NMCKENMCKE Member, Trusted Posts: 5,767

    I think that's more of a problem with the design of the game, so the EGC should initiate after 5 minutes of no generators being completed. :)

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 7,046

    Sure, which means we won't see this until then. 🤔

  • NuclearBurritoNuclearBurrito Member Posts: 4,303

    I wouldn't have it hide physical evidence, preventing vision on you is strong enough, especially if it hides aura as well.

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