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Fix Decisive Strik

So decisive strike was fine before the changes. (like across the board, all skill levels. it might not have been amazing at higher levels but it still worked outside of killer juggling) but since the change its unusable unless you really know what youre doing or the killer really doesnt.

Like straight up every time i take decisive strike the killer will tunnel me off hook and leave me on the ground until its not active anymore and then pick me up and I dont get to use it OR they are like not bad people and will chase the person that rescued so I dont even get a chance to use it and by the time theyre back on me the timer expired.

The issue before was that killers were able to stop people from using decisive by dropping them every couple steps. But now its not only easier for the killer to stop people from using decisive, but even when they dont try to stop it from triggering i rarely ever get the chance to use it anymore because people dont tunnel unless theyre desperate for kills and arent good at the game, but when thats the case, tunnelling isnt the worst thing they do.

Basically its now only good if you're a good survivor against a bad killer so yall should fix it. Like killers are already stronger than survivor, and you keep buffing killer stuff and nerfing survivor stuff. Like killers can hit survivors through windows from like 5 feet away, have a bunch of perks that tell them exactly where survivors are, have perks that punish survivors for doing exactly what they have to do to win (or lets be real play) the game (like heal and [BAD WORD]), can slow the game down immensley with stuff like ruin and thanataphobia, and survivors have like, nothing even close to that powerful to fight back with and yall decided to take away one of the closest things survivors had to a decent defense.

I vote (and Im just spit balling here):

-We make it closer to how it used to be where it triggered automatically, not only if you just got unhooked. Or like if you get unhooked, it activates like inner strength does when you do a totem, and the next time you get picked up it triggers regardless of how long its been, but it deactivates if you fully heal

-Remove it as a perk entirely and just make it a standard part of the game. Like vaulting, hiding in lockers, throwing down pallets. Just make decisive strike a standard ability for survivors and remove the obsession aspect of it. That way if a killer plays super tunnely, everyone has a chance to free themselves whether they take the perk or not, and it frees up a perk spot on laurie for you guys to add an entirely new perk to the game

-Change it so that IF a killer plays tunnelly, the active timer pauses while in the dying state and while being chased. Like, if you REEEEALLY want to make it an anti tunnelling perk, then keep it as it is, but take away the option entirely. Like make the choice for the killer "Either you dont tunnel people off the hook, or you risk them breaking free with decisive." That would solve the problem we had with juggling with the original decisive strike way better than this rework ever did


Sorry if this got a little ranty but killers are inherently way stronger than survivors, and their perks vs survivor perks just widen that gap. And it genuinely feels like you guys care more about making the game balanced for the best players who have the skill to play around unbalanced perks and stuff anyways, instead of making the game balanced for everybody. Like itd be one thing if there was a professional DBD Esports league (which, like....there should be I would watch the crap out of that) and you guys were focused on keeping it balanced for the professional players, but nah youre basically just keeping it balanced for youtubers and streamers.

I know Im gonna get a lot of flak for this and Im fully prepared for it but I felt like it needed to be mentioned

Comments

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,979

    No, DS wasn't fine before the changes. If there wasn't a hook nearby you were almost 100% getting d-striked, not knowing if after 35% you're gonna get striked also wasn't fine.

    Also you can still "recreate" old ds by getting pulled from the locker (or getting grabbed)

    Like killers can hit survivors through windows from like 5 feet away, have a bunch of perks that tell them exactly where survivors are, have perks that punish survivors for doing exactly what they have to do to win (or lets be real play) the game (like heal and [BAD WORD]), can slow the game down immensley with stuff like ruin and thanataphobia, and survivors have like, nothing even close to that powerful to fight back with and yall decided to take away one of the closest things survivors had to a decent defense.

    Survivors also have stuff that does something against Killers like also getting their aura revealed, speeding up the gen speed (prove thyself for example), making the chase last longer with exhaustion perks.

  • TheNerdyRockstarTheNerdyRockstar Member Posts: 61
    edited October 2019

    the stuff the killers have that slow down survivors and stop them from getting stuff done/getting away is way stronger than what the surivors have to fight back with. like ya survivors can reveal the killers aura sometimes and speed up repairs

    but revealing aura doesnt necessarily protect you if the killer is already near enough to you and knows their [BAD WORD]

    and killers can slow down repairs just as much if not more than survivors can speed them up with perks alone

    plus killers are just inherently stronger because of how the game is designed

    plus the buggy hitboxes

    like D strike was fine before across the board

    maybe it was broken at higher levels but again, the people at those levels are good enough to play around that. It was perfectly fine from like ranks 20-8ish because it did what it was supposed to do, but now it seems like it might as well not be there 80% of the time

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,979

    Again, D-strike wasn't fine. Ranks 10-1 could hit ds pretty consistently and without much counterplay.... yeah. (again if there wasn't a hook nearby or one person blocked you were screwed) Also how DS was fine at ranks 20-10... It was a tremendously difficult skillcheck that most of these ranks would miss always or most of the time. That looks productive but for killer, not for survs.

    That's why you have Distortion, lockers, "baiting", Urban Evasion/Fixated. All these protect or confuse the killer when they see your aura. It's your decision on how to use those.

    And that's the point. There is 1 killer, 4 survivors. It should be obvious that 1 person (in this case killer) perks should be stronger in asymmetrical game against 4 people (survivors)

    Hitboxes, yes they are buggy. But i wouldn't say ALL killers are stronger than survivors, unless survivors allow them to be strong.

  • TheNerdyRockstarTheNerdyRockstar Member Posts: 61
    edited October 2019

    i mean i was able to hit d strike pretty consistently since i was like rank 17ish except for when i forgot i was running it lol

    lockers are not reliable, urban and fixated make you move a little faster but the killer is still faster than survivors

    distorion only works 3 times in a game, most killer perks that reveal survivor auras do it waay more than 3 times per game

    and ya its one killer vs 4 survivors. on paper it sounds balanced, but killers have stronger perks and survivors have to rely on their teammates without communicating. I have been [BAD WORD] over by teammates countless times because they were more concerned with getting themselves out or saving themselves than playing as a team so I (personally) never rely too heavily on teammates outside of getting me off hooks.

    And again again, I disagree i think it was fine. sure survivors can pretty consistently hit it but killers can also consistently juggle so they dont have the chance to use it at all. If juggling wasnt a thing then ya maybe it would be slightly unfair how it was but Behavior literally said it was a legit strategy to counter DS and they approve of it. Its fine at ranks 20-10 by your standards, when survivors werent hitting it consistently. It seems like your biggest issue with it is that when a survivor used it successfully it worked, so I figured your definition of "fine" would be if it only successfully worked occasionally.

    And I do, generally speaking. if 5 people played, all at basically the same skill level, with no items, add ons, or perks, I think that the killer would have a seriously good chance at getting 2 or more kills regardless of who they played unless the map [BAD WORD] them over like billy on lerys or something like that, but even still i think its super likely theyd get at least 2 kills because of the standard advantages killers have over survivors.

  • TruthTheDeceiverTruthTheDeceiver Member Posts: 516

    Decisive Strike before its change was horrifyingly unbalanced. It had no counterplay, and it fit with every single build you could think of. It rewarded Survivors for playing badly, and punished Killers for catching them regardless of the situation. You may say that Killers can just "juggle" Survivors with DS, but that's such a dumb thing to have to do. I can tell that you're not looking at this from the Killer's perspective.

    Also, it's not about using DS. It's about DS saving your life when you DO get tunneled or found within that minute. Believe me, A LOT happens in one minute in this game. It's like Unbreakable now but better.

    Lastly, Killers are not stronger than Survivors. Like Milo said above, there are four Survivors and one Killer. In a 60 second chase, Survivors can do almost two generators without certain perks. Putting pressure on Survivors isn't easy, and if they all had old DS, then the game would be child's play for them since it didn't matter anymore if they got caught. If you play Killer at the higher ranks, then you'd understand a lot better.

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,979

    < And I do, generally speaking. if 5 people played, all at basically the same skill level, with no items, add ons, or perks, I think that the killer would have a seriously good chance at getting 2 or more kills regardless of who they played unless the map [BAD WORD] them over like billy on lerys or something like that, but even still i think its super likely theyd get at least 2 kills because of the standard advantages killers have over survivors


    Thats the average that should happen. 2 kills 2 escapes. Obviously that doesnt happen everygame but that is the "perfectly" balanced match if that happens.

  • TheEvilKitTheEvilKit Member Posts: 39

    Old Dstrike was unequivocally the most broken perk in the game, hands down. Why? Imo being able to assume that an obession had Dstrike was fine and not my problem with the perk, it was that you had no idea if the other survivors would hit you with when you were halfway to a hook. This was frustrating as hell to deal with, and ultimately unavoidable at rank 12-1 because d strike was such a meta perk, especially in a try hard swf. It was particularly bad for further cementing a killer's loss in endgame combined with adrenaline.

    The "counterplay" of juggling people was essentially just an exploit of how the system functioned that couldn't really be fixed by the devs without changing how the perk worked (which they did). Tbh if all BHVR did to change old d strike was to make it so it triggered on pick up like it is now and made it so it was useless on non obession I'd be okay with that too.

  • MisterCremasterMisterCremaster Member Posts: 613

    Its a perk, like many others, that has a counter and that you may not get to use. Just like Deliverance. Got hooked before unhooking someone else? Its a wasted perk.

    Like deliverance, its a much more powerful perk than many others but that is balanced by the fact that you won't always get to use it.

    The killer has TONS of perks like this. Nearly EVERY hex perk. Franklin's demise if they consume their items before you get to them.

    If you want to use every perk you bring, I suggest you bring perks that work more passively.

    Or, if you really like stabbing people, start playing killer. You get to literally decisively strike people all day long.

  • TheNerdyRockstarTheNerdyRockstar Member Posts: 61

    are you trying to tell me that behavior making decisive less usable across the board is comparable to killers, who are already at an advantage in basically every game, having a couple of perks that you may or may not get to use?

    like sure if you have franklins and they use up an item, whatever. but most people dont use up items, they use it until theres one charge left and keep it to try to escape with it.

    Plus, even if the killer has perks that arent getting used, he can still control the entire game by manipulating the mechanics, he can facecamp, slug, tunnel, etc.

    if a survivor has perks that arent getting used, theyre f*kd (unless theyre like rank one and have the skill to play without the perks but this conversation isnt about those people its about average players)

  • TheNerdyRockstarTheNerdyRockstar Member Posts: 61

    alright so do you think it would be fair to at the very least keep new dstrike but take away the obsession element of it because it doesnt directly affect how the perk works? like it can make you the obsession after using it which most of the time is a punishment for fighting back which i think is bs

    And at a certain point it just lets killers know youre probably running it and they can prepare for it/avoid it so it becomes pointless anyways

    like sure lets say it was broken before (i dont think it was but hypothetically), its actually broken now because theres so many problems with it.

    also like, you cannot tell me that you think Dstrike was more broken than ruin or franklins or nurses calling or noed like it works once in a match if you hit the difficult skill check. those other perks last (or at least CAN last) the entire match, or noed comes out of nowhere to be unfair right when youre about to escape.

  • MiloMilo Member Posts: 5,979

    @TheNerdyRockstar

    are you trying to tell me that behavior making decisive less usable across the board is comparable to killers, who are already at an advantage in basically every game, having a couple of perks that you may or may not get to use?

    like sure if you have franklins and they use up an item, whatever. but most people dont use up items, they use it until theres one charge left and keep it to try to escape with it.

    Yes. Yes it is. Also reminder, Franklin's gets rid of charges as well. If they try to keep an item with slither of charges remaining you actually can destroy their item

    Plus, even if the killer has perks that arent getting used, he can still control the entire game by manipulating the mechanics, he can facecamp, slug, tunnel, etc.

    if a survivor has perks that arent getting used, theyre f*kd (unless theyre like rank one and have the skill to play without the perks but this conversation isnt about those people its about average players)

    Facecamp -> genrush, slug exists, tunnel oh look DS is here!

    Also not all the time. Survivors perks are supposed to be a counter to whatever the killer is doing (or they give you more info) Like Unbreakable, Decisive, Alert.

    alright so do you think it would be fair to at the very least keep new dstrike but take away the obsession element of it because it doesnt directly affect how the perk works? like it can make you the obsession after using it which most of the time is a punishment for fighting back which i think is bs

    And at a certain point it just lets killers know youre probably running it and they can prepare for it/avoid it so it becomes pointless anyways

    Last time i checked most obsession perks for the killer reward them for ignoring the heck out of you. (i said most because Rancor/Furtive Chase is an exception, Dark Devotion you are getting "slightly" ignored)

    And no it doesnt. DS makes someone random be the obsession at the start of the trial. The killer has no clue if the person he just tunnelled has DS or not.

    like sure lets say it was broken before (i dont think it was but hypothetically), its actually broken now because theres so many problems with it.

    also like, you cannot tell me that you think Dstrike was more broken than ruin or franklins or nurses calling or noed like it works once in a match if you hit the difficult skill check. those other perks last (or at least CAN last) the entire match, or noed comes out of nowhere to be unfair right when youre about to escape.

    Old DS was broken because it was OP. This DS is only slightly broken because it can be abused if used "incorrectly" (by what it's supposed to do now)

    And yes, i do think DS was more broken than ruin ... franklins? You think franklins is broken? Anyways, Nurse's, NOED and Ruin have obvious counters:

    Don't heal in Terror Radius, Destroy all totems beforehand (totem at the end), Power through ruin/destroy the totem.

    DS had a "counter". Not always reliabe. And against non-obsession it didn't even work. And also yes. 4 second stun CAN make a huge diffrence (see how even now 5 second DS can make a game turn into your favor)

  • TheNerdyRockstarTheNerdyRockstar Member Posts: 61

    honestly, that would be fine. Pause the timer while slugged would be great i think. It wouldnt fix most of the problems I have with new DS but it would at least make it an actual reliable anti tunneling perk.

    Also were you thinking like when endgame collapse triggers the timer unpauses if youre already slugged? or like if youre slugged already it stay paused, but if you get slugged during EGC it doesnt pause at all?

  • DBDisBESTDBDisBEST Member Posts: 11

    The killers are suppose to be stronger than survivors that’s why u have to make quick decisions and out smart the killer.

  • TheEvilKitTheEvilKit Member Posts: 39

    I get it man, slugging sucks. It's better than being facecamped but you're still having player agency taken away from you by being stuck on the ground for however long it takes for the killer to come or your friends to get your ass up so you can get back to playing the game. No one likes sitting out of a fast paced game for a full minute and having it happen repeatedly is no fun.

    However as is, current DS is honestly one of the most balanced (with some abusable issues) niche power perk for survivors in the game. It counters a specific, frustrating problem survivors can have (getting hard tunneled) and buys their team so more time, and feels real dang good when you slam that skill check in the killer's face and run off to loop again. Its only counter requires killers to make gameplay and macro decisions based on the situation: slug you to keep momentum snowballing, eat Dstrike if the killer has the momentum to afford it, or ignore you and chase your unhooker. And those are all choices a killer can decide to make based around if they think you have DS or not! Hell, survivors with dstrike active even currently have the agency to force a killer to ignore them as long as DS is active, which is kind of powerful and abuseable.

    Now what if we went with the idea of pausing the DS timer while you are slugged? The killer now has two choices: eat the DS now or later. It would also promote more unsafe hooking because who gives a [BAD WORD] if you get downed, killer can't do jack to avoid the DS now. Your friends get you up? Run and find the killer to get downed again and waste even more of their time because if they touch you a piece of glass is going in their neck. DS now is easily abused as is, tryhard survivors would just open palm slam DS into any build they weren't memeing with if it paused the countdown while slugged.

    To be quite honest, I feel that a lot of people miss the whole point of why BHVR changed this perk and many other perks in the game: to give players more choices. If any one perk is too powerful, it limits choices that people can feel they can make and that ain't good game design.


    tl;Dr - I'm a nerd and think current dstrike is cool because ~player agency~

  • RaccoonRaccoon Member Posts: 3,666
    edited November 2019

    Decisive Strike is currently one of the best survivor perks in the game, performing well beyond its "intended" function in multiple ways.

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