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New Solo Survivor concept (looking for feedback)

Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
edited October 2019 in Creations

I'm curious to know what people think of this concept. You can see this on my art page as well (on dA, I'm Noctis-Corvus).

Lore:

Not all survivors are human, but as long as they are willing to help others escape the trials, they might as well be. One such example of this is a little girl named Charlotte. A child with a troubled history, she had no family and desperately wanted a way out from the slog that became her life. Foster parent after foster parent couldn't handle this depressed little girl. The entity took note as she was in such pain, not just due to an isolation from others, but due to her own masochistic tendencies. After being abducted, she was transformed into a killer, known as the Vampire... but she couldn't bring herself to kill survivors because they tried to help and protect each other. She gave pain, but felt sorry for inflicting it against them after seeing the desperation in their eyes...

After refusing to do her job, the Entity decided to strip her of most of her power and make her a survivor. It eagerly awaits for her last hopes to be blotted out and her to join the roster of killers again... and it knows it will happen.

But that is unlikely to happen in the present moment, as now supported by her fellow survivors, she feels that they are her family and will do all she can to protect them... despite her new nature.


Charlotte comes with three teachable perks:

(Lvl. 30) Bloodthirsty: Not all of your enhanced senses have been stripped away from your transition from a killer to a survivor. Pools of blood are more vibrant, and when standing near them (10m or less) you can see the aura of the injured survivor within 32 meters. She gains a small TR (20m/15m/10m) and red stain when tracking another survivor. The killer cannot hear the TR or see the stain.


(Lvl. 35) Communion: When injured, you can approach a dead body or an alive survivor and, through a short animation (which will last between 2-5 seconds, but a dead body will be longer than an alive survivor), drain them of blood. This will heal her 1 health state, and injure a living survivor performed on. The alive survivor will be broken for 20/15/10 seconds. You will not take blood from an injured survivor.

There will be a cooldown of 60 seconds.


(Lvl. 40) Unbridled Rage: When injured by another, you become furious as you wait for an opportunity to strike back. When injured, stunning the killer with a pallet will give you a 10/15/20 second window to attack the killer and gain a health state back. The killer will be stunned for the duration of the animation performed (again, 2-5 second long animation). This will leave you exhausted for 60 seconds. If you do not use it within the 20 seconds you will not be exhausted.


EDIT: Picture update, meter radius for Bloodthirsty, and animation lengths added for Communion and Unbridled Rage.

EDIT 2: Gave Communion a cooldown, and Unbridled Rage is now an Exhaustion perk.

Post edited by Raven014 on
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Comments

  • Critical_FishCritical_Fish Member Posts: 157

    Great concept, even better execution.

    Bloodthirsty is a cool perk that could work somewhat well in a more altruistic build. One question though, what counts as tracking? Following the blood trail specifically?

    Communion is a cool way to gain back a health state. Especially if you have a medkit and the other person doesn't, it still heals faster than if you didn't use it. Again, one question, how long is the animation?

    Unbridled Rage is great. I originally thought it was going to be another DS like perk, but it actually punishes the killer for making a mistake. Does attacking the killer extend the stun, or does it only gain a health state, though?

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited October 2019

    Thank you. : D

    Bloodthirsty: I was thinking standing like 10m or less to a bloodstain will activate it. And yes, you'd have to follow the blood trail to continuously track them. The duration of the aura lasts as long as you're "tracking" the trail. (fits with the ex-killer theme).

    Communion: The animation would probably be around 2-3 seconds. It'll be quick.

    Unbridled Rage: I originally had the tiers at 30/45/60 seconds, but I realized that was too long and would just be a major detriment to the killer... so I changed it back. I was also thinking of giving a visual cue for it as well, like having arms outstretched or something... It stuns only for the length of the animation, as you get a health state back as well as buying time.

    I was going to update it right now because the image needed an update, but I'll add these in there as well.

  • Critical_FishCritical_Fish Member Posts: 157

    Alright, thanks for the extra info on the perks! :D

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I would also like to say that Unbridled Rage is a counter to Spirit Fury/Enduring combo as well, since it'll be easier to get the attack off.

  • RattmanRattman Member Posts: 1,126

    This concept suck. Entity wouldn't transform killer into survivor if killer don't want to kill, ok? Entity enjoys to watch other suffer and do stuff against other's will. Like, if you don't wanna kill, you will suffer. Then suffer more. Then you start killing, even if you don't wanna. Or be placed to void, I guess.

    Bloodthirsty - don't give any benefits, since if you see blood - you probably can hear injured survivor. Or, like follow the bloodtrail. Survivor won't be far enough, cause blood dissapears quick enough.

    Communion - injure healthy survivor and heal yourself? Pls no, this game is toxic enough already.

    Unbridled rage - you can't fight back, you can't freakin attack the killer! This perk goes way too far breaking not only balance, but lore.

  • Critical_FishCritical_Fish Member Posts: 157

    At the end, it literally showed the Entity's though process.

    The Entity has never done something like this until this concept, you cannot tell how the Entity would act. If you don't notice, Survivors get hurt and suffer A LOT. Making a Killer a Survivor would 100% beat them into being a Killer again if their will is not strong enough.

    Bloodthirsty helps in an altruistic build. It could be beneficial if in the Survivor's eyes, blood trails lasted longer, but eh. It would be based on playstyle.

    Communion would work in one scenario. If the injured Survivor had a medkit and the other one didn't. Sure the 10 seconds of broken hurts, but they can still be treated faster than the Survivor that used Communion. Think about scenarios it could work in before you critique it. Communion also helps in an altruistic build.

    Who said you couldn't fight back? If you forgot, this Survivor is not completely human. Sure most of their power is gone, but still some is contained. If you actually read other comments, youll see how Unbridled Rage is balanced. It is a short stun, and does not affect lore.

  • RattmanRattman Member Posts: 1,126
    edited October 2019

    @Critical_Fish

    >you cannot tell how the Entity would act. If you don't notice, Survivors get hurt and suffer A LOT. Making a Killer a Survivor would 100% beat them into being a Killer again if their will is not strong enough.

    Point is, I CAN tell how Entity would act. Once Trapper didn't listen to Entity, he became tortured. Hooks and metal bars appeared in his back for reason. Entity don't tolerate disobedience, y'know?

    >Bloodthirsty helps in an altruistic build.

    Well, I see it somewhere near Predator or Unrelenting. Nearly useless. Infact, making you emmit terror radius actually beneficial for killer.

    >Communion would work in one scenario ...

    >Think about scenarios it could work in before you critique it.

    Easy. SWF gonna use it for bullying purposes. By the way, I really like how you say that perk which makes other survivors injured could be used in altruistic builds. Bruh, what is wrong with you?

    >Who said you couldn't fight back?

    Devs.

    Million times on devstreams devs were asked, why survivors can't fight back. Like, 4 survivors could easily overpower killer like Hag. Or Pig. Or Legion. I mean, we have David King, who is basically a fighter, Bill Overbeck, who died at zombie apocalypse. David Tapp, who is also in good physical form etc.

    Point is: they can't. As devs said, being in Entity world is somewhat similar to being in the nightmare. You just scared and can't fight back. Even if you trying, its not working.

    This also could be extended to "why survivors don't use hatchets from lockers".

    Some Entity limits.

    >youll see how Unbridled Rage is balanced

    So, like... during a chase if you take hit and then stun killer... you can stun him again and recover one health state. I read it again and I kinda wanna slam my head against the wall.

    I'am very happy that this guy - the author - is far away from game development, really.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I will disagree with you because of this point: just because the entity hasn't done this kind of thing yet doesn't mean it isn't a possibility. This is a concept for a reason. I am looking for genuine feedback, not just a generalization of your opinion.

    Bloodthirsty: It helps find injured survivors in a different way to empathy (which is overall better than this perk, but that's another thing). It makes injured survivors more cautious when being "hunted" because they don't know if it's the killer or not until they see who it is. My thought process has always been that survivors shouldn't always be helpful to each other because that makes games unfun for killers... but since disguise killers are confirmed to not be added into the game, this is another method.

    Communion: It's never toxic against other survivors, survivors are toxic to killers. Plus it fits with the theme of the character.

    Unbridled rage: It's really a punishment for Spirit Fury/Enduring more than anything else, but it has a downside. That being, it's time period is really short, and if the killer is expecting it, then they'll play to that. True, it wastes killer's time with two stuns, the timing has to be just right.

    At least I am trying to come up with concepts instead of just complaining.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    With the medkit changes, that would be an indirect buff to communion, especially with a green medkit, which has the fastest self heal in the game.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited October 2019

    No you can't. You cannot tell how the entity would act. I would never presume to fathom a lovecraftian entity's thought process, just because there is no way to tell. In this concept, sure, it's intentions are easy to read, but when you think about it, survivors wouldn't know about this.

    Bloodthirsty: It does not benefit the killer in any way because the killer can't see the Red Stain or hear the TR (it's in the perk description). It only causes momentary confusion for the injured survivor. That's it.

    Communion also works on dead bodies, being a shadownerf to Moris in general, yet nobody mentions this.

    That being said, I can understand where you're coming from. That perk is designed to be a solo survivor perk, not an SWF one. Maybe I should buff the broken timer to compensate.

    Unbridled Rage: Well, most killers run Enduring/Spirit fury which this perk counters. The easiest way to avoid this is just: don't get stunned by a pallet. That simple.

    It also doesn't quite work against instadowns killers or perks either, since you must be injured first. It also wouldn't work on Nurse because Nurses' won't get pallet stunned that often. So it's not as broken as you think it is.

    That being said, making it an exhaustion perk might make it more balanced.

    They said that... then release DS and Head On. Their words, and their actions are clearly different.

    Again, at least I am trying to make something. I have yet to see some kind of beneficial feedback from you instead of just saying it's bad and moving on. If you see a problem, propose a solution, but one that isn't just: Delete this.

  • JoyfulLeaderJoyfulLeader Member Posts: 566
    edited October 2019

    I'm joining the disagree side as well. The Entity is a very unpredictable force. It always changes it's ways such as adding Inhuman killers and allowing for killers (The Plague) to speak during matches. The Entity always finds different ways. Clearly you didn't consider this.

    Even the devs said that the Entity is always changing, and is extremely unpredictable with what it does and impossible to tell what it will do next.

    "I'm very happy that this guy - The author - is very far from game development really"

    Seriously man? That was just unnecessary and just makes you look like you don't know how game development even works. Criticism is good, but don't criticize the author themselves like that because all it does is make you look bad smh

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Thank you for your support. : )

    Do you have any opinions on the concept itself?

  • ZoldyarZoldyar Member Posts: 431

    There's two massive problems I have with this build.

    For communion, is a survivior force into giving the other surivior her/his health state back up? Also, if not then how would a surivior prevent the other surivior from doing so? I can see this perk being a massive troll and being abused on other suriviors. Moreover, is it a time thing or can a surivior use this perk constantly? If so it could be considered op. One last thing, can a surivior do this to a surivior that is injured? So in other words, can a surivior force another surivior to go into a dying state?

    For unbridled rage, is there an exhausted effect that is included on it? This is because a surivior can abuse this and use this constantly with head on. Also, when a survivor has this perk activated, is there a time limit to how long it stays active? I'm asking because what if everyone has that perk on and stun the killer. Would it be balance if a killer gets stunned for 8 seconds?

    Other then that, I like your idea of new perks on a surivior. I also like your unique idea because you think outside the box of how a surivior, doesn't nesecessary have to be a human. It's just like the Demogorgon not being a human but still considered as a killer. So you also using that idea for Suriviors is pretty clever.

  • JoyfulLeaderJoyfulLeader Member Posts: 566

    Yes, I do enjoy the idea of a non-human survivor in the game, I'm sure a lot of people would main her :D. The perks itself are interesting, very unique yes but I think some minor changes would be nice.

    For Bloodthirsty it should be something more special. It's a lot like Empathy just with extra things added that can confuse other survivors on the killer's whereabouts.

    I think Communion should have a small cooldown just so survivors don't run around and drain other bodies/survivors.


    Unbridled Rage is a cool one, I'm not sure how I would change this one

    All in all, I really like this concept and how it's different from other concepts. It's quite refreshing actually

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited October 2019

    Thank you for your questions.

    Communion is purely a more selfish perk by design, so yes, she can force them. However, a survivor with Communion must be injured to be able to use it. So a survivor can't just troll and do that to their fellow survivors all the time. It's risk/reward scenario. Either you let them heal you, or you take your chances that they won't be found and bite them. Perhaps having a cooldown would make sense though, since spamming isn't supposed to be what it's for.

    No, they can't down a survivor into the dying state with that perk.

    On further reflection, I believe Unbridled rage should be an exhaustion perk, since it extends chases, even giving you a health state back.

    Well, survivors should be more human like than killers, since that keeps them relatable, but I would be interested in seeing aliens or something like that in the future for possible survivors (they'd be more human like than beings like Demo, though). There are only so many humans you can make for either side in the long run.

    Thanks for the compliments!

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited October 2019

    I would too... not just because she's my creation of course. : P

    As she is a former killer I think Bloodthirsty is fine, imo. It's all about tracking survivors, and I'm not sure of how to change it to be better other than an increased range... I personally think Empathy needs a bit of a nerf, because the info given can be really good and it has unlimited range...

    Communion now has a cooldown of 60 seconds, if that's too much, please tell me.


    Thank you for the compliments!

  • RattmanRattman Member Posts: 1,126
    edited October 2019

    Okay, last attempt. Not sure why I even bother, you don't really listen anyway, like just ignore my arguments and keep saying this concept is good.

    You cannot tell how the entity would act. I would never presume to fathom a lovecraftian entity's thought process, just because there is no way to tell.

    ...

    I will disagree with you because of this point: just because the entity hasn't done this kind of thing yet doesn't mean it isn't a possibility.

    Like, Iam saying that this isn't possible, PURELY because stuff like this happened before!

    Trapper. He refused to kill survivors, he refused to listen to Entity. Then he became tortured. Like, a lot. Then he got broken and started to kill. As I said, Entity don't tolerate disobedience.

    There are many killers, who looks tortured. It's all Entity doings.

    Take the proof here, check questions №47 and 55.

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/2402/every-lore-related-question-devs-answered-81-questions-and-some-answers-1/p1

    So, as I say, Entity have its own way to make killers do their job.

    Worth to mention, Entity also have subrealm called "The void" where she stores survivors and killers, who bacame useless to her. Like, if Entity doesn't succeed with this "intensive persuasion" she just exposes killer into the Void.

    Check devstream №111 if you want proof for this.

    I'll agree, tho, that Entity is unpredictable and she probably not always work with the same pattern. There should be exceptions sometimes. Probably.

    But not the way how you showed it in your concept. According to your concept, Entity showed MERCY to killer, who don't wanna kill! It was as if Entity fulfilled Charlotte's request to stop killings. So, this is a big no-no.

    By the way

    But that is unlikely to happen in the present moment, as now supported by her fellow survivors, she feels that they are her family and will do all she can to protect them...

    There is no such thing as survivors family. They hardly know each other. Even Charlotte hardly know them to say that they are her family.

    Check question №5 from topic above for proofs.


    Moving to the perks.

    Bloodthirsty:

    It only causes momentary confusion for the injured survivor.

    Yeah. It causes momentary confusion. And also, it's useless, cause you still can track injured survivor, if you follow the blood. But, whatever.

    Communion:

    Communion also works on dead bodies, being a shadownerf to Moris in general, yet nobody mentions this.

    ...

    It's never toxic against other survivors, survivors are toxic to killers. Plus it fits with the theme of the character.

    Lol. If you think about it, Communition also shadownerf to DC, since you can heal from left bodies! That a good perk. Except, if killer moried someone, or someone DC-ed, your team basically screwed 8 times of 10.

    And yeah, survivors can be toxic to each other. Pointing to the locker, where other surv hiding, sandbagging, alliance with killer, trade from hooks... your new perk. Please, no. As I said, this community is toxic enough. Especially, after you said that

    Communion is purely a more selfish perk by design, so yes, she can force them.

    Worth to mention, not only this perk is bad for your teammates, its (after 3.3.0 patch) would became one ot the fastest ways to heal.

     through a short animation (which will last between 2-5 seconds...)

    Unbridled rage:

    Let me give you one hint why this perk is REALLY bad desighned. It allows you to instaheal during a chase. At next patch instaheals are getting nerfed, cause devs finally realised how broken they are. This perk would be too good even if it was limited to one use per game.

    By the way, I'll say it again: it also breaks lore.

    Again, at least I am trying to make something. I have yet to see some kind of beneficial feedback from you instead of just saying it's bad and moving on. If you see a problem, propose a solution, but one that isn't just: Delete this.

    ...

    At least I am trying to come up with concepts instead of just complaining.

    I clearly pointed at all problems in your concept. You need feedback? Take it. It's not really my problem, that your concept is, like, really bad, so it couldn't be fixed. It contradicts lore, breaks balance. Like, idea bad in general.

    As if I suggested killer perk, which makes it so that 1/2/3 survs at the beginning of the trial spawns on hooks. And then asked for your feedback or propose solution instead of be like: delete this.

    And yeah, there is a difference between complaints and feedback. Feedback is having some facts at your back, telling why something is good or bad. Complaint is stating something is good or bad just cause. In my view atleast.

    By the way, am I guilty now for not coming with concepts or what? Coming with concepts make you some kind of special, even if your concept is bad? What if I don't like to come with concepts, huh? What if I like lore theories or memes?

    You don't need to be a cook to say that soup isn't tasty, y'know?

    So yeah. Whatever. This is my last reply on this thread. I kinda see that everyone is gonna stay with their opinion anyway, but I don't really care. This concept is never gonna make to the game (like, most of them) anyway, so this is pointless in the first place.

  • ZoldyarZoldyar Member Posts: 431

    I see now. I still dont like the fact of Communion being able to injure a surivior without the player's consent, but i'm fine with the rest of your ideas.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188
    edited October 2019

    Ok, first off, I wrote that she treats them like her family, since they all care for each other in their own way. Sure, in the lore, they don't interact often, however, in game they all work together really well. So it's a partial nod to that.

    You think turning a killer into a survivor is mercy...? Ok. That's the highest form of delusion.

    Being sacrificed literally shaves off a portion of your soul. It devours a part of you during that process. And it's extremely painful. Not to mention the various ways killers can injure/attack you. Getting downed by a chainsaw, hatchets, bear trap, deadly plague... it's one of the most painful things anyone can experience.


    Bloodthirsty: I would like some competitor to Empathy. It's a really good perk on it's own, for helping locate survivors. If Bloodthirsty was just Bloodhound but for survivors, then it wouldn't be very good. You'd be surprised how many survivors are across the map after finding blood, especially with the prevalence of Sloppy Butcher.

    Communion: True it would be faster. That's because this perk is supposed to mess with survivors, specifically teamwork and trust. They will rush everything, and this will throw a wrench in the gears. This perk's existence alone will make people more suspicious in Solo que, and cause chaos in SWF if they bring it. It's for the solo player to get the "Me above everyone else" mentality which is exemplified in the lore, but not in gameplay.

    This perk has also received a change of a 60 second cooldown.

    Unbridled Rage: I am a killer player at heart. I know how bad instaheals can be... however, Second wind does essentially the same thing. Besides, this perk wouldn't work against certain killers very well, nor would it work if the killer knows you have it.

    This perk has also received a change of a 60 second exhaustion cooldown.


    The only reason I bring up that you haven't provided anything is because you don't give any solutions, you don't give any bit of actual feedback. You just say this concept is a problem (I quote: "This concept sucks"). You can disagree with the lore, fine, that's the part that's interpreted by others... however, just dismissing it because of that is a bit much... to the point you give a personal attack... is not the right thing to do.

    Your first post: Complaint about the concept and perks. No suggested changes or reworks.

    Second post: No suggested changes/reworks. More complaints, with some evidence from Devs. I counter with DS and HO in defense of UR, which has actually become an exhaustion perk that has no cooldown reduction between tier. Communion similarly has received a 60 second cooldown since then.

    Third Post: You bring evidence in the form of the questionnaire. They say that "Any killer who looks tortured probably was by the entity". That makes no sense when you consider the Hag. She was eaten alive, and willingly serves the entity. Trapper went mad and killed people... but there is no reference to him ever being tortured by the entity, nor is there any reference to him ever refusing the entity's orders. Doctor added his equipment to himself, Spirit was already like that and eager to get revenge... Almost none of the playable killers have been tortured even though they say they have been. Leatherface is the only one that comes to mind, but even then it seems like it was enough as is.

    While it might make sense to just chuck Charlotte into the void instead of making her a survivor... think about it. If a killer had a bond with survivors, how would you best break that bond? Chucking them into the void would be easy, sure, but how about making them see what it's like from their end, so watch as others die, to be unable to help them, to be killed yourself, to see survivors you though you could trust abandon you... wouldn't that be a more fitting way to break a person into what you want?

    Sorry, but an artist and author will always create art, no matter what people say. It's our way of contributing to what we enjoy. I'm sorry if my contribution was lost to you.

    Besides, if you consider fan chapters a waste of time, then why did you even open this thread?

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Communion is supposed to sow distrust among survivors. I'm of the belief that they shouldn't all have perfect synchronization like they do now, but should earn victory against the killer... despite their teammates. It's a selfish perk, but not all perks should encourage perfect teamwork... but that's just my opinion.

  • JoyfulLeaderJoyfulLeader Member Posts: 566

    Ever considered that the Entity ie trying to make her a stronger killer by letting her see what it's like to be a survivor? For a fan creation you really go out of your way to prove an idea wrong

  • DeathEscapeDeathEscape Member Posts: 313

    Communion is great

    The reason why survivors cannot fight the killer is because they are using cat and mouse concept of gameplay, not Tom and Jerry though

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188


    He said this idea sucked without trying to help improve it and then insults me because he doesn't like it. He then tries to debunk me (although he hasn't) when I provide an argument.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Thank you!

    The devs say that, then add DS and Head On. Words and actions don't line up...

  • DeathEscapeDeathEscape Member Posts: 313

    Can i have a collab with you? Im currently creating a new chapter and i dont have a add-ons for the killet yet and new survivor

    i will make sure to credit you

    I love your work especially the communion, dead bodies can be used thats really nice especially on end games

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    Let me guess... is it with the werewolf one you came up with...? Or is it a new one?

    I can help with addons if you want it. But I'm not sure about having Charlotte as the survivor until I know what the killer is...

    I was also thinking of making her future self (as killer) to round out the chapter... but if your chapter has potential, maybe I won't.

    Thank you. Communion was supposed to have some counterplay with Mori'd bodies. Make Moris have some downside for killers. : P

  • DeathEscapeDeathEscape Member Posts: 313

    Its not finished yet but i will tell you it will be exciting

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