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So Spirit is getting nerfed

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  • Venom368Venom368 Member Posts: 321
  • bubbascalbubbascal Member Posts: 318

    Iron Will counters every Killer. Most high rank Killers use headphones and listen for your pained cries if they lose you. Iron Will also counters Nurse as well. Quick and Quiet is also good VS a phasing Spirit as well. Lets you confuse Spirits very easily and quickly and win chases.

    Even great Spirits also suffer from their biggest weakness: Collision. They are not Nurse, they cannot go through things. Vaults, pallets, objects... they must respect these. Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops, they have to path to the Survivor and then hit them.

    When a Survivor is at a loop, they can position themselves at weird and unpredictable spots to make it impossible to even run into them. Like just outside a loop, etc...

    Being injured does not mean you will get hit by phase too. Great Spirits must respect vaults and pallets. Sometimes vaulting something multiple times can confuse a Spirit. Same for pausing before making another vault. You just have to get into the Spirit's mind. Many Spirits suffer from predictable attempts at reads and can be read accordingly.

    But no, you'd rather just throw your hands in the air and beg for nerfs that would, without fail, make Spirit Legion tier. Blue scratch marks? Yeah, no, you just want safe, consistent methods of dealing with a Killer so you can easily loop them for 5 gens and then teabag at the gates and think you're good. That's the goal, that's ALWAYS the goal.

    "Spirit's phasing? Well, I'll just do this one simple thing and I can't get hit! Duh huh, I'm so smart, doing this one braindead thing over and over that, unironically, can't be mindgamed by the Spirit!"

    I've listened to the complaints. All of them are stupid and boil down to "We don't want to think! We want things to be easy!". You're entitled.

    You're also against running Iron Will because you want to run meta perks. And ONLY meta perks. You want to have Adrenaline every game, you want to bring Dead Hard every game, etc... you don't want to switch perks.

    It's that simple.

  • Karl_ChildersKarl_Childers Member Posts: 669

    They will probably claim to play on PS4. I see this response pretty much every time someone tells a person they should do KYF with you to prove their “counters”.

  • Spirit_HagSpirit_Hag Member Posts: 167

    Basically you have to let at least two survivors escape each round so your fav killer wont "overperform" in the game stats and get nerfed. Got it. Also, be sure to stay away from red/purple rank as after spirit is nerfed, whos gonna willingly play 4 man swf or just a full set of 4 solo high skilled survivors with no killers strong enough to handle it consistently? lol RIP red rank survivor queues if this happens

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    I was going to discuss this further with you, but since you felt like you needed to end your comment with "Git Gud", I'm just going to end the discussion right there.

  • Venom368Venom368 Member Posts: 321

    If you are saying you can only handle 4 man swf groups with Spirit, you are opening admitting the imbalance of Spirit to other killers.

  • GrootDudeGrootDude Member Posts: 14,112

    I feel like this is being said about me since I have told Scott this before so here is proof.


  • bubbascalbubbascal Member Posts: 318

    So, because she's winning more, that would mean that she HAS to be nerfed... Survivor skill, Survivor rank, Killer rank, maps and other things don't matter... okay. Spirit's strengths and weaknesses definitely don't matter as well. As well as why she's picked so much... 'kay.

    ""Dont nerf a killer for overperforming" is blatantly pushing people towards playing OP killers instead of trying to balance them all."

    On the flip side, "only nerf top tier killers and never buff low tier killers to deal with a major problem (elite "gg ez" Survivor teams who genrush like crazy)" also pushes people towards top tiers. Especially since, because of how the lobby system works, you can't tell if you're dealing with a elite team until you get in-game. You might as well always play it safe. Use your best perks, use the best Killers, JUST IN CASE a team rolls around that will make you wish you brought a mori.

    There is a major issue with Survivors that people play Spirit to counter. You would rather be Survivor biased and make it even easier to win as Survivor instead of dealing with the major issue that Killers face.

    This is also the reason why nobody plays Killer and why Survivor lobby times are so long as a result: Because it's not fun. Every Killer is weak and has the same weaknesses (which is what you REALLY mean by "bringing all Killers in line", making sure they have the same easy strategy to beat them with), why play Killer when you're gonna be consistently sweaty all the time?

    Survivors are evidently going to be getting more BP as well, which is taking away from one of the reasons for playing Killer.

    Clearly, Killers must be nerfed so hard until this game dies because the dumb Survivors who complain about "nO cOunTeRpLaY" stop playing because of long matchmaking. And don't even learn why that matchmaking was so long in place.

    If one side can't have fun, the other side doesn't deserve to have fun either. Want Spirit nerfed? Compromise then.

  • NullSp3cNullSp3c Member Posts: 765

    I think the only good and possible counterplay option is to make survivors see the animation as spirit channels, but reduce the channel time, so she can sometimes be sneaky and catch a survivor off-guard.

  • bubbascalbubbascal Member Posts: 318

    So, you're saying there's a issue with the schoolgirl outfit then?

    Also, thanks for admitting you want to "reliably" counterplay a Killer over and over. You're exactly the type of person I was complaining about earlier: A biased Survivor who doesn't want to think or try to get into the Killer's head. You want safe, consistent methods of beating Killers that CAN trip you up.

    Willing to bet you won't think "no counterplay" when it comes to genrush too and elite Survivor teams.

    Morons like you don't understand how big of a deal "blue scratch marks" would be. Because you can't see the bigger picture.

    "Ohhhh, Spirit is phasing! And she's phasing THAT way! Well, I just have to do this simple thing and then she can't do anything to me! Dur hur, I'm so good! gg ez baby Killer!"

    Where is the "counterplay" to getting your movements constantly read at loops, hmmm? What will the counterplay be to Survivors being able to constantly tell where you are? How will you be able to mindgame them? What is the safe and consistent counterplay to genrush too?

    The answer: There is none. Which is your goal: EZ wins for you, a Survivor main.

  • The_Bootie_GorgonThe_Bootie_Gorgon Member Posts: 2,340
    edited November 2019

    I'd would rather just have the devs remove the husk when she uses her power.

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 1,936

    If the stats show that she has a very high kill ratio, then the nerf is absolutely justified. It's the right thing to do. You are a game designer and you see a character having like a 70% kill ratio or something. Of course it would make sense to change them.

  • Venom368Venom368 Member Posts: 321
    1. I said decisions should be made off of her data. How and why are you assuming that survivor and killer rank has nothing to do with that? Spirit's pick rate should 100% be considered along with the rest of the data. You just assumed all of this information in an attempt to devalue my statement.
    2. I agree that buffing underperforming killers is a valid option normally, but not necessarily in this case, just because Spirit's issues stem from lack of counterplay existing. (I also was quoting a previous comment on this thread, not quoting a non-existent post) The 'gg ez' mentality is just being unsportsmanlike, no matter what team the person is on. It's frustrating and tilting when I see it, but I see it better to brush it off rather than trying to fight fire with fire. Thats how the community turns against eachother and wholesomeness is out the window.
    3. Not sure what you are trying to say in the next paragraph, if you want to try to reword that.
    4. Again, you are putting words in my mouth about killer balance here. I absolutely do not believe that all killers should have the exact same weaknesses. I do believe that all of their weaknesses should be similar in the amount of effort it takes to counter/capitalize on the weaknesses. There are of course core fundamentals for survivors in the game, but ideally the amount of effort that goes into countering Cannibal vs the amount of effort that goes into countering Spirit should be comparable, even though they are much different strategies. And currently, it is extremely more difficult to counter Spirit than the majority of other killers. To go along with the 'sweaty' part you are talking about, Killer role is much more intense in this game than playing the survivor role, because its asymmetrical. It's much more stressful and requires much more focus and attention than playing survivor does. Thats what you need to know going into it, and it you don't want to play intensely, either play survivor, or play a different game. Most games aren't asymmetrical and don't have the natural difference in required intensity levels.
    5. I don't know if this is just me, but I average about half as many BP on survivor as I do on killer. I would say in 90% of the games I have ever played, the killer gets more points than any survivor, even if all 4 of the escape. Plus, BBQ & Chili seems to be much easier to get 4 stacks with than getting 4 stacks with WGLF on survivor. (I consistently use both perks. On survivor, it is a dead perk. On killer, it is consistently known to be the #1 perk in the game because it allows you to consistently apply pressure along with doubling your BPs).
    6. I wouldn't be upset at all if the survivors with that mentality stopped playing the game. Usually, if survivors can't handle the queues, they swap over and play killer. And they understand the difficulties on both sides. I would much rather play with people that have experience and viewpoints from both sides, rather than people who strictly play 1 role and just complain. Their opinions aren't as powerful because they haven't experienced the other side of things.
    7. I think you are wrong in your last statement. That's the bully and winner mentality. Both sides should be having fun, thats where the balance comes in. If neither side is having fun, why would anybody play the game at all? Either change something up or play a different game if you aren't having fun. If you are playing tryhard prayer beads Spirit with the mentality of 'survivors need to be punished', i mean... that fits in with the lore of the game and all... but thats the wrong mentality to play games with in general. I just want everbody to have fun and feel like things are fair on both sides. (The latter being much more difficult to achieve than the prior)
  • DBD_PinheadDBD_Pinhead Member Posts: 762

    I'll say it before and I'll say it again: buff UNDER performing killers so there's actual variety in choices on viable killers. This shouldn't be a hard task to do.

  • Venom368Venom368 Member Posts: 321

    This is actually the most ignorant post I've ever read on this forum lol

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    You think Adrenaline is big on the survivor side? lol

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050
    edited November 2019

    Okay, I'll discuss this with you: Please keep this civilized when you respond.


    Iron Will counters every Killer. Most high rank Killers use headphones and listen for your pained cries if they lose you. Iron Will also counters Nurse as well. Quick and Quiet is also good VS a phasing Spirit as well. Lets you confuse Spirits very easily and quickly and win chases.

    I actually use Iron Will for a stealth build, and it works very well for losing killers. Recently, I been using Second Wind which also acts like an Iron Will and Decisive Strike hybrid because it prevents grunts of pain and can heal you as you're getting tunneled.

    Quick and Quiet is not worth a perk slot for me personally, it's just not my taste and I'm definitely not going to use two perks to counter a killer that I might not always get.


    Even great Spirits also suffer from their biggest weakness: Collision. They are not Nurse, they cannot go through things. Vaults, pallets, objects... they must respect these. Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops, they have to path to the Survivor and then hit them.

    Collision is Spirit's strongest area because she can use that to detect where the survivor is at. I also have to disagree with, "Great Spirits cannot truly ignore loops," because well, it's obvious, you can just go around the loop or fake it. That practically makes the loop irreverent because the survivor will end up taking a hit because they have no feedback from the Spirit player.


    When a Survivor is at a loop, they can position themselves at weird and unpredictable spots to make it impossible to even run into them. Like just outside a loop, etc...

    What if I fake my phasing, see the survivor go to their spot, then phase to their spot? Every Spirit does that so they can see what the survivor is trying to do, then plan ahead for a hit while the survivor has no idea what the Spirit is doing.


    Being injured does not mean you will get hit by phase too. Great Spirits must respect vaults and pallets. Sometimes vaulting something multiple times can confuse a Spirit. Same for pausing before making another vault. You just have to get into the Spirit's mind. Many Spirits suffer from predictable attempts at reads and can be read accordingly.

    Being injured is like feeding raw meat to a pack of hungry wolfs, great Spirits love injured survivor because they have scratch marks and audible cues. If you are going to vault the same window repeatedly, you're kinda shooting yourself in the foot because you're keeping yourself in a vulnerable state. Killers can hit you through windows — especially when you can't reliably get fast vaults when vaulting back through the same window.


    But no, you'd rather just throw your hands in the air and beg for nerfs that would, without fail, make Spirit Legion tier. Blue scratch marks? Yeah, no, you just want safe, consistent methods of dealing with a Killer so you can easily loop them for 5 gens and then teabag at the gates and think you're good. That's the goal, that's ALWAYS the goal.

    Actually, I suggested a nerf and a buff, here's the quote if you don't believe me: More counterplay against the Spirit, but she can use her power more. This won't make her a Legion at all, and legion isn't as bad as the majority of the community make them out to be.

    Also, I just want a fair game where the killer outplayed me with mind games, not because I failed at guessing correctly.

    To be clear, mind game =/= guessing game.


    "Spirit's phasing? Well, I'll just do this one simple thing and I can't get hit! Duh huh, I'm so smart, doing this one braindead thing over and over that, unironically, can't be mindgamed by the Spirit!"

    I actually do a lot of things when getting chased by a Spirit, but that doesn't matter most of the times because you can't always guess correctly, especially when she knows what you're doing and you don't know what she's doing.


    I've listened to the complaints. All of them are stupid and boil down to "We don't want to think! We want things to be easy!". You're entitled.

    I am entitled to my opinion, and from seeing things for both perspectives, I can say Spirit needs more counterplay that's fair for both sides.


    You're also against running Iron Will because you want to run meta perks. And ONLY meta perks. You want to have Adrenaline every game, you want to bring Dead Hard every game, etc... you don't want to switch perks.

    It's that simple.

    I already addressed this above, I use different perks and Dead Hard is actually a great counter to Spirit, which is why it's used so often. It can also extend chases or correct survivor mistakes, there's a reason why it's in a lot of survivor builds.

    I don't like Adrenaline because being down a perk is just not my taste either.


    Edit: Enlish is hrd.

  • Spirit_HagSpirit_Hag Member Posts: 167


    If that were the case, seems to me it makes more sense to bring other killers to her level, not try to keep 80% of your killers in mediocrity.

    Also lets be clear, is it possible to have a chance with other killers at high ranks, sure, but its a lot less likely they will succeed with those odds and having to stress so much as killer in high ranks can be very discouraging as people play games to try to relax opposed to stressing. When ive mentioned this to other people they will respond with "Well its more fun to take on the challenge with a killer thats not op".....well then if were gonna take it there, why not just take on the challenge of the current spirit? shrug I dont know, i just cant get behind the idea that nerfing her instead of buffing everyone else

  • djsponge10djsponge10 Member Posts: 349

    Just nerf school outfit. then lol change it so you can see that stuff, I don’t look at glass or stance switch or none that. But her hair sticking up is 100% consistent. Idk if it’s a graphics thing on console but every time I’m at a pallet battle against a spirit I glue my eyes on her hair and it always works until she breaks pallets, only time I die by spirit if I’m in a dead zone or if I’m caught beginning of game because of unknown prayer beads. She’s in a good place she’s not the most fun but she’s more fun than unfun. I also hardly use OP perks I usually will only use BT or DS not both with plunderers head on and probably prove thyself or unbreakable. Plus spirit is played so much on ps4 at least.

  • RepliCantRepliCant Member Posts: 1,436

    I just want Prayer Beads to have Moderately/Tremendously Decreased movement speed when using her power, thats all :(

  • SpaceCoconutSpaceCoconut Member Posts: 1,962

    I made a video too. It's an interesting situation to a person such as myself who predicts rather than reacts.


  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 670
  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    Everything you mentioned on the video I already do, and at first, I also thought Spirit was fine because you can predict her.

    However, that doesn't work against the best Spirits, you can't out-predict her when she has better tools to make better predictions than you.


    Here's what survivors have:

    • Spirit's previous behavior
    • Phase cool-down
    • Foot steps
    • (Outside TR) Phase warning


    Here's what Spirit has:

    • Faking
    • Scratch marks
    • Blood trails
    • Grunts of pain
    • Grass movement
    • Regular breathing
    • Foot steps


    Like I said, she has a lot more tools to make better predictions than the survivor does. Don't get me wrong, I love strong killers a lot, but in my opinion, they should have fair counterplay.

    Survivors need an equal amount of tools to predict the Spirit for me to consider her fair for both sides.

    Also, good Spirits change up their gameplay as the game plays out so the survivor can't use her previous behaviors to make an accurate prediction.

    Therefore, the survivors actually have:

    • Spirit's previous behavior
    • Phase cool-down
    • Foot steps
    • (Outside TR) Phase warning


    I'm willing to discuss this with you since I know you make very great point, and can do that in a civilized manner! ??

  • NMCKENMCKE Member Posts: 8,050

    I seen your video, and suggested it to you on YouTube and on the forums.

    What if Spirit left blue scratch marks behind her while she phases? To compensate, they could decrease her cool-down or increase her phase movement speed. ??

  • AkiTheKittenAkiTheKitten Member Posts: 670

    Depends, I play on PS4 and I don't know if you actually play Spirit at those ranks

  • DaGreenBoltDaGreenBolt Member Posts: 453

    Except Spirit is able to counter 4 man swf groups that are optimal, Billy isn't even that good against them. That's one reason why Nurse and spirit were popular in red ranks. Now that Nurse is nerfed, people will play spirit as a result to fight these types of swf.

    Also if that's the case, doesn't that mean that maybe, just maybe that most Killers aren't the power role in this game? Maybe you should tell BHVR to stop nerfing High tier killers and mid tier killers and instead buff mid-tier and low-tier killers to match killers like Billy.

    Okay but from what we know they will nerf Doc. They never stated they will buff him, they stated they will "make him more fun to play against", which as seen by the Legion nerf, and Nurse nerf, will mostly likely result in the Doc getting nerfed.

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