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Dark Sense Challenge is Unhealthy For This Game

HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298
edited November 2019 in General Discussions

So I just had a 5 minute match, maybe. TL:DR below

I spawned near Ruin that was right next to a Gen, you know a typical match, and the Gens flew hard, really hard. Everyone was going on those Gens as hard as we possibly could because we had the Dark Sense Challenge, I'm assuming they had it too since everyone was teaming on the Gens. When someone got chased we all just sat on that Gen, hid when the Killer came by, went back on it a second later, I was being chased and I went near a Gen that was almost done so the Killer switched targets and I finished that Gen. Right afterwards I ran to the Gen I was previously working on and raced 2 other Survivors to that Gen that thankfully had a spot for all of us and bam, game over, Adrenawin on everyone but me because I don't have faith I would get that far to use it 😅

We were like flies on a pile of crap in that match and the Killer got 2 hooks.

The problem with the Dark Sense Challenge is that it basically tells Survivors ''Yo, if you don't get that Gen done you won't get your prize, you better do ALL 3 ONE TIME''. Survivors have to race to finish Gens before other Survivors do them first, the challenge forces Survivors to not just do gens but RACE to do Gens, it makes finishing Gens a competition instead of just the goal. This Challenge encourages Survivors to Gen rush by proxy.

To further explain why this challenge is bad lol If we all have to do 3 Gens then we are competing with each other. If one person is getting chased I will finish their Gen for my Challenge and that leaves that person with 1 less Gen to finish. That Survivor is pressured into finishing a Gen before anyone else so they can do their challenge, they are pressured into doing it FAST, fast so no one can steal their victory. If Survivors feel they are racing to do the Gens before everyone else then they are as a matter of fact, rushing the Gens, that is legit Gen rush; Gen rush made by a Challenge.

This Challenge is unhealthy for the game, it doesn't matter if the Killer is skilled it matters that Survivors are encouraged to compete with other Survivors over the main goal of the game, it makes us speed run. We want to problems to fix Gen rush not make it worse yo.

TL:DR---The challenge is influencing Survivors to compete over completing Gens and unintentionally encouraging Gen rushing. Gen rush may exist normally in Red Ranks but the Devs are making the problem worse by challenging us to do it.

Post edited by HatCreature on
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Comments

  • ocafghanistanocafghanistan Member Posts: 3,338

    I only got this by pure luck and it was because a demogorgon was afk

  • EleghostEleghost Member Posts: 350

    obviously you haven't been at red ranks or against people trying super hard to win.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    As Survivor I got to 4, as Killer I would rather not no but I don't have time to get there regardless. My complaint is that the Devs are encouraging and unintentionally influencing Gen rushing, not that it exists but that the Devs are encouraging it with the Challenge.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    That isn't the issue though, the issue is that the Devs are unintentionally influencing it by creating a challenge that requires it. They make the problem worse.

  • KillermainBTWm8KillermainBTWm8 Member Posts: 4,193

    At least that challenge encourages survivors to do the objective somewhat. Liberator has you unhooking 15 survivors or in other words farming people off hooks 15 times to ensure you do the challenge faster. Or how about the use 15 pallets one, some people will just go around throwing every pallet down with Windows Of Opportunity. Yes these challenges seem healthy but people want to get done as quickly as possible. Which means you aren't gonna be having a good time if someone wants to speedrun the tome :/

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    I had a teammate not know they were supposed to be in chase to do the pallet challenge so they threw down all the pallets, thankfully at the end of the match when everyone was leaving.

    I think this is just another case of the Devs underestimating their players, kind of like Legion and the moonwalk technique or Survivors refusing to Cleanse against Plague, they said they never expected players to do those things. I admit it is hard to come up with a challenge that we can't take advantage of in some way.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 1,797

    Funny how the gen rush challenge is unhealthy for the game but the "throw 15 pallets while in a chase" isn't on your list of concerns at all.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    Probably because the pallet one requires you to be in a chase in order to complete the challenge which is the right thing to do for that challenge. Only an idiot who cannot read will screw the game over for other players by throwing down pallets for no reason. I actually had a hard time doing this one because I kept getting stealth Killers who were breaking chase. I am more concerned about bad game design and not people who are illiterate, at least for now.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 1,797
    edited November 2019

    Even if it requires being in a chase, someone can still throw pallets without using them correctly and screw over their entire team. Playing terribly on purpose is far worse than rushing gens imo, and the survivor challenges are riddled with ones that encourage you to do just that.

    Two safe unhooks in one game? Better bring BT and farm my teammates to get those safe unhooks, even though they're not really safe. Use Self Care to heal myself two times in a match? Oh it's an anti heal GhostFace, time to waste a full gen worth of time while someone's sitting there trying to heal me(this was literally my Self Care 2 times game).

    The killer's chasing me? Yay I can surely throw at least 6 pallets before I go down... the first time.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    The challenges are all like this and annoying I agree, I felt like an [BAD WORD] for using Self-Care and I'm pretty sure I got yelled at in Spanish when I told everyone what Challenge I was doing. I feel it is a case of the Devs underestimating how far players can take advantage of their challenges, I think they just didn't expect us to play in the way we are when it comes to the pallets and the unhooks.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 1,797
    edited November 2019

    You'd think they'd learn by now. All of the survivor challenges are like this. The killer ones can all be done by playing regularly, most in one game. A lot of the survivor ones can take several games to do and the rewards are pretty bad. The master challenges are easier imo and reward survivors better than the ones that take longer to do, which I don't understand, but my main issue is with how it pretty much encourages toxic gameplay for survivors to each other. There's no telling how many games a killer got a 4k just because the survivors weren't taking the actual game seriously and were just doing challenges, which imo shouldn't happen. The challenges shouldn't encourage abnormal gameplay that hands a killer a win on a silver platter, and you know during those games the killer most likely felt like either "These survivors were potatoes" or "I didn't really earn this win". That's how I'd feel anyways. I've only done the gen grab and agitation ones for killer so far because the survivor ones take much longer and I'd rather get them out of the way.

  • KillermainBTWm8KillermainBTWm8 Member Posts: 4,193

    It was going to fail by design, battle passes were designed for BR games. Games that had 100 players per match. It didn't matter if people were doing challenges because by the end. They probably weren't but in a game like DBD it doesn't quite work like that. It just isn't good design for an assym.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 1,797
    edited November 2019

    I don't think the challenges would have been that bad, if they had put more thought into them to make them more skillful displays than just farming ones.

    "Take two protection hits in a single game". That would have encouraged less toxic gameplay because you're not farming anyone, you're not harming anyone, and you're not playing toxic. You are encouraged to play in a way that's beneficial to progress of the game.

    "lose the killer in a chase twice in a single game". Maybe a bit more luck based occasionally, but still not harming anyone, promotes skill, and progression of the game(you can work on gens, or you can lure the killer back into you to take the heat off everyone else).

    Things like that wouldn't be too bad. Things like "Get two safe unhooks in a single game" encourage you bringing BT and unhooking the moment the killer hooks someone, or trying to get someone hooked so that you can unhook them(a Nancy sandbagged me for this one).

    Of course, if BT didn't count as a safe unhook, then maybe it'd be a little better.

  • fluffymareepfluffymareep Member Posts: 632

    If you aren't pressuring gens/completing gens, you aren't getting out. It's already a race. If survivors don't try to push out as many gens as they can (acting as though they need to complete a certain amount of gens), the lose. While it is competing with each other, not everyone will be doing the same challenge. You just get unlucky sometimes.

  • Johnny_XManJohnny_XMan Member Posts: 1,793

    Genrush is a term used so loosely in this game, I don't even take it serious anymore.

    No one says anything when killers slug to an excessive amount of time, or when they tunnel or camp to try to get that person out of the game.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 2,077

    I did that challenge on my first try lol.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    I hate mass slugging, it's so boring and disgusting. When I slug I only do it for 1 Survivor but if the Gens were going fast and they are pretty grouped together I might accidentally slug everyone because I'm under the assumption I'm about to lose lol At that point when I realize what I did I let someone get up so they can make a save because that's bs.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    It took me 3 tries because of bad luck and a slugging Huntress.

  • WINTERSWINTERS Member Posts: 127
    edited November 2019

    I keep getting killers that tunnel. And I am the first one found always lol.


    Edit:

    The game is also forcing me to be a bit mean to the killers when it comes to the blinding challenge. I don't bring flashlights and don't use them ever but now I have to. I finished it though and I felt bad about it. 😖

    Post edited by WINTERS on
  • LordGlintLordGlint Member Posts: 4,681

    I often times do it out of convenience rather than as a goal. If I chainsaw one guy and see another nearby...might as well chainsaw HIM too. Before I know it, I have 3 ppl on the ground and saw the last guy. Might as well finish this game now.

  • cricketscornercricketscorner Member Posts: 465

    You only need to be on a generator as it finishes while using dark sense as far as I understand. I fail to understand the issue. If you don't do gens as a survivor, you're dead anyway.

  • The one that requires survivor to drop 15 pallets is worse. I've seen player making noises to get the killer to chase them, drop every pallet in the map when the killer was far behind, then run to a hook and stand there and suicide on first hook

  • SairekSairek Member Posts: 4,381

    I've seen so many bloody people do that.


    Had a Claudette who just threw down every [BAD WORD] pallet in the entire map. Then complained why they didn't get their challenge done after the game ended. To which the other three survivors insulted and bashed the hell out of them with words I cannot repeat here.


    This is why I never liked the idea of challenges in the first place. It makes people do stupid things, which impacts the three other people negatively.

  • ciaranr1997ciaranr1997 Member Posts: 2

    It has to be 15 safe unhooks so it can't really just be farming. In all my games I've played since this game out I've never seen a single person farm/be farmed to get it

  • theArashitheArashi Member Posts: 798

    Yesterday I had 3 such matches in a row.

    Survivors can(and often do if they have a functional M1 button) finish the game quickly.

    They start their game, turn around, cleanse all of your totems during first 20 seconds and hold M1 for 80 seconds... 3 gens pop, then last 2 they get all on and before you really start, they finish everything they needed to do and escape.


    Survivors used to get punished for it because of very low points intake for just doing gens but now they finish with 15-16k each because they appear before you while you are chasing someone else and they do the bones.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,548
    edited November 2019

    IMHO a lot of challenges are unhealthy for the game. Some require you to basically throw a match. I lost a Huntress game because I was trying to do the Agitation challenge and I got Rotten Fields. TWICE I dropped the guy just before the basement hook. I literally didn't even care about winning I just wanted my challenge. I got it the next game more because of luck (basement was at Suffocation Pit and I caught one right away near it) but I don't like these types of challenges. Forcing someone to use a perk or character, or to do something that is almost counter productive to normal game play is bad design. I get there are only so many challenges you can create, but these don't belong in the game.

    PS. I feel the same about some dailies, but at least for them you can trash it for a new one.

  • PainaPaina Member Posts: 78

    this ^

    I also think a lot of the challenges are unhealthy, cause some of us are forced to play in a way we normally wouldn't play. I'm a casual player, I can only play at the weekend, so I have to rush through my challenges more than someone who plays several hours everyday. The totem challenge for example, instead of doing gens I've only searched for totems. Of course I've went to unhook people, but I didn't touched one single gen until that challenge was done. Casual players suffer a lot and since I'm the worst killer ever I can't get the killer challenges done, so I won't buy the next rift, even though I would like to.


    Edit: typo

  • meatisadelicacymeatisadelicacy Member Posts: 615
    edited December 2019

    Just had a game where the killer was letting people farm so I finished all five gens but I didn't have Dark Sense equipped so that's painful.


    Gave it one last try a couple hours later and I literally did all five gens in a game where the killer was actually trying. I did four gens with one person and then we split and both started on the final gen, he got chased, and I finished the fifth. And guess what? The two teammates who didn't do a single gen the entire game got out, and the two of us who literally did every single gen died. Aint that DBD for ya?

    Post edited by meatisadelicacy on
  • CashelP14CashelP14 Member Posts: 1,121

    I personally feel a few challenges are unhealthy in this way. Before I use these examples I want to say I didn't mind the challenges we got. I also prefer the 1 game challenges more than the challenges that take multiple games.

    Sacrifice 2 survivors during endgame collapse using the perk NOED. I think this encourages more killers to use NOED which survivors hate facing.

    Sacrifice 4 survivors in the basement in one game. This brings out the insidious leatherfaces and basement camping killers which I hate facing.

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