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Dear Fellow Survivors Mains

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  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,773

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
    They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
    If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

    What people don't realize is they try to tell the Killer's to "ignore it and have fun," yet they talk about how Survivors "don't have many options," and resort to using top meta perks, which ironically makes them tryhards. Rather than use other things and "have fun" they run the most optimal things. The perk stat usage doesn't lie. Most survivors rely on DS, SC, and SB.

    The issue is, Survivors don't NEED to rely on these things because looping is already so crutchy, and simple skill will allow a survivor to run with no perks. There's 0 reason for people to rely this heavily on these perks other than they are unskilled.

    On the other hand, there isn't 1 particular perk that is really overpicked for Killers, like SC is obviously waaaay overpicked, being used by 80% of survivors last time they showed stats. Killers tend to rely on a few perks that help their playstyle, but also because the game's mechanics are so skewed against them, it becomes nearly impossible to win using anything else, no matter how skilled you may be, as we saw with Marth's squad and how they bodied Killers using the sweatiest builds imaginable, USING ABSOLUTELY NO PERKS THEMSELVES.

    Whether they're accurate or not, i'd REALLY like to see the devs release usage stats on Perks again, and this time in all kinds of ways...

    Include ALL Perks, then...
    Make a list on all ranks just for consoles.
    Make a list on all ranks just for PC.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for consoles.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for PC.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for consoles.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for PC.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for consoles.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for PC.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for consoles.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for PC.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for consoles.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for PC.

  • VancoldVancold Member Posts: 187

    @Tsulan said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    Killers complain that they are not enjoying the game, because its more of a chore than anything else. Killer is under constant pressure and experiences high amounts of stress. And don´t get me started on the bullying.
    Survivors complain that they can´t pip anymore, because running in circles doesn´t grant them a auto pip.

    You pretty much sumed up my point, showing what's wrong with this mentality.

    "Survivors complain that they can't pip anymore wa wa wa killers complain for the right reasons wa wa wa". Yeah. It perfectly describes the killAr mAinz way to handle the "both sides" discussion.

    In the end, the fun factor is a priority for both sides, because looping and camping are a big part of the game and the game can't get rid of those things as quickly as we want. Another big issue is that gameplay doesn't differ based off ranks. That's the crucial point of the discussion that, unfortunately, many killAr mAinz don't seem to get.

    Saying as a killer main myself.

    Well, as i already said. The fun factor was only about the survivors. Not the killers.
    Freddy got gutted because survivors had no fun while facing him.
    Still waiting for survivors getting gutted. Because killers have no fun facing them.

    Have you ever played survivor, fella?

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
    They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
    If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

    That's what I'm talking about. "Both should be lended an ear". Exactly. That's why I'm against constant victimization and memeing, because it minimizes one side, to the detriment of the other.

    It only minimizes one side if the one who with the issue presents it in such a way.
    Lend them an ear at first, then judge, is how i view the right way.
    Someone with the title of "This is why i'm not having fun" is usually too quickly judged from my point of view, or at least what i've frequently seen on the Steam forums.

    Sure, no feedback should be ignored and I agree not everyone is "obliged" to discuss about each side every time he wants to point out something improvable in the game; but as a matter of my perspective (I'm saying this based on my experience on Steam's forums), many issues have been presented and discussed in "competition" with the counterpart, in fact, minimizing whatever other issue could have been raised as a valid argument of discussion.

    For example: if a player is having a bad experience (killerside) and he proposes a list of buffs which will enhance his fun factor to the detriment of survivors gameplay experience.. Then it's simply WRONG to minimize the counter-argument (maybe an objection to the buffs, which could probably create another fun-factor issue at a different level of play) just because that player plays the victim card.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Boss said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
    They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
    If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

    What people don't realize is they try to tell the Killer's to "ignore it and have fun," yet they talk about how Survivors "don't have many options," and resort to using top meta perks, which ironically makes them tryhards. Rather than use other things and "have fun" they run the most optimal things. The perk stat usage doesn't lie. Most survivors rely on DS, SC, and SB.

    The issue is, Survivors don't NEED to rely on these things because looping is already so crutchy, and simple skill will allow a survivor to run with no perks. There's 0 reason for people to rely this heavily on these perks other than they are unskilled.

    On the other hand, there isn't 1 particular perk that is really overpicked for Killers, like SC is obviously waaaay overpicked, being used by 80% of survivors last time they showed stats. Killers tend to rely on a few perks that help their playstyle, but also because the game's mechanics are so skewed against them, it becomes nearly impossible to win using anything else, no matter how skilled you may be, as we saw with Marth's squad and how they bodied Killers using the sweatiest builds imaginable, USING ABSOLUTELY NO PERKS THEMSELVES.

    Whether they're accurate or not, i'd REALLY like to see the devs release usage stats on Perks again, and this time in all kinds of ways...

    Include ALL Perks, then...
    Make a list on all ranks just for consoles.
    Make a list on all ranks just for PC.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for consoles.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for PC.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for consoles.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for PC.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for consoles.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for PC.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for consoles.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for PC.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for consoles.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for PC.

    I agree, I would like to see these stats. And not hidden behind a way that makes the problem seem less serious than it really is, like when they showed the stats last time.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,773

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Boss said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    What people don't realize is they try to tell the Killer's to "ignore it and have fun," yet they talk about how Survivors "don't have many options," and resort to using top meta perks, which ironically makes them tryhards. Rather than use other things and "have fun" they run the most optimal things. The perk stat usage doesn't lie. Most survivors rely on DS, SC, and SB.

    The issue is, Survivors don't NEED to rely on these things because looping is already so crutchy, and simple skill will allow a survivor to run with no perks. There's 0 reason for people to rely this heavily on these perks other than they are unskilled.

    On the other hand, there isn't 1 particular perk that is really overpicked for Killers, like SC is obviously waaaay overpicked, being used by 80% of survivors last time they showed stats. Killers tend to rely on a few perks that help their playstyle, but also because the game's mechanics are so skewed against them, it becomes nearly impossible to win using anything else, no matter how skilled you may be, as we saw with Marth's squad and how they bodied Killers using the sweatiest builds imaginable, USING ABSOLUTELY NO PERKS THEMSELVES.

    Whether they're accurate or not, i'd REALLY like to see the devs release usage stats on Perks again, and this time in all kinds of ways...

    Include ALL Perks, then...
    Make a list on all ranks just for consoles.
    Make a list on all ranks just for PC.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for consoles.
    Make a list on grey ranks (20-17) just for PC.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for consoles.
    Make a list on yellow ranks (16-13) just for PC.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for consoles.
    Make a list on green ranks (12-9) just for PC.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for consoles.
    Make a list on purple ranks (8-5) just for PC.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for consoles.
    Make a list on red ranks (4-1) just for PC.

    I agree, I would like to see these stats. And not hidden behind a way that makes the problem seem less serious than it really is, like when they showed the stats last time.

    "Do you see? Only 23% of the Survivors use Self Care."
    Uh huh... Godamn underdog DbD meme of the year.

  • RazielRaziel Member Posts: 100

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Raziel said:
    I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.

    Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).

    The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.

    Exactly. I know the mistake I made. I tried to go with my usual strategy of downing more than one person, but it wasn't going to work out in my favor. I was already starting to realize the nonsense and opted for the basement despite there being a reachable hook on the left hand side of the house. If I had hooked them there, the match obviously would have went completely differently.

    This is a prime example of how one tiny mistake can nearly cost a Killer the entire game.

    Securing a sacrifice at 5 gens is a must. It is rarely given to a killer, and yes, I do mean given, since, if survivors do not mess up, you will NEVER get a hook at 5 gens.

    I never pass this opportunity up. With only 3 survivors, map control becomes more than just a pipe dream.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Raziel said:

    @weirdkid5 said:

    @Raziel said:
    I saw one major problem on the killer side, during that match. Your initial chase investment up to 1 character being downed and picked up was wasted. If you had hooked the first downed survivor and camped them (you were STILL at 5 gens) you could have easily won and the others would have most likely come to challenge you at the hook rather than do gens.

    Instead of doing that, you let yourself be looped and ate a lot of pallets. You fed the survivors a lot of points and allowed them more chances to win (even if they didn't).

    The above also makes the survivor's comment about "tryharding on the PTB" completely ridiculous.

    Exactly. I know the mistake I made. I tried to go with my usual strategy of downing more than one person, but it wasn't going to work out in my favor. I was already starting to realize the nonsense and opted for the basement despite there being a reachable hook on the left hand side of the house. If I had hooked them there, the match obviously would have went completely differently.

    This is a prime example of how one tiny mistake can nearly cost a Killer the entire game.

    Securing a sacrifice at 5 gens is a must. It is rarely given to a killer, and yes, I do mean given, since, if survivors do not mess up, you will NEVER get a hook at 5 gens.

    I never pass this opportunity up. With only 3 survivors, map control becomes more than just a pipe dream.

    Indeed. Again, I'm chalking my mistakes up to not having played Killer in quite a while. I remember I can't sleep while playing Killer like I can Survivor.

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105
    1. Sorry, but dropping the chase against a looper is the dumbest thing you could do.

    I stopped reading here frankly. If you don't realise as a 'killer main' that continuing to chase someone who is great at wasting your time while the other 3 do all the gens then I am not sure what to say to you. Can you even logically explain how that makes any sense at all?

    I watched the clip and you didn't try any mind games on the Ming Mong you just followed her around like a faithful hound taking each stun in the face. You didn't even see the rest of them for the game so how they can be considered toxic is beyond me. The game would have been boring for them because you tunneled the Feng so they were on M1 gen repair simulator.

    The fact is that good killers know how to manage the match better than this and make the game fun for all by hooking them up and regressing gens and generally having a 15 or 20 minute fun game rather than an 8 minute bore fest.

    Of course sometimes you will get toxic survivors but I saw nothing here that was toxic at all it seemed you just got frustrated because she ran you for 4 gens and then they naturally tried to be altruistic because they had no points yet.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Vancold said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @Tsulan said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    Killers complain that they are not enjoying the game, because its more of a chore than anything else. Killer is under constant pressure and experiences high amounts of stress. And don´t get me started on the bullying.
    Survivors complain that they can´t pip anymore, because running in circles doesn´t grant them a auto pip.

    You pretty much sumed up my point, showing what's wrong with this mentality.

    "Survivors complain that they can't pip anymore wa wa wa killers complain for the right reasons wa wa wa". Yeah. It perfectly describes the killAr mAinz way to handle the "both sides" discussion.

    In the end, the fun factor is a priority for both sides, because looping and camping are a big part of the game and the game can't get rid of those things as quickly as we want. Another big issue is that gameplay doesn't differ based off ranks. That's the crucial point of the discussion that, unfortunately, many killAr mAinz don't seem to get.

    Saying as a killer main myself.

    Well, as i already said. The fun factor was only about the survivors. Not the killers.
    Freddy got gutted because survivors had no fun while facing him.
    Still waiting for survivors getting gutted. Because killers have no fun facing them.

    Have you ever played survivor, fella?

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:

    @Boss said:

    @Vancold said:
    Victimization is good feedback's grave.

    Unfortunately that's how many killer-sided opinions sounds and it instantly makes the whole "killer mains discussion" lose relevance.

    If it loses relevance, then the next event becomes quite unavoidable, which is people leaving, whether that be a specific Killer, Killers entirely or the game entirely.
    In whatever way it's voiced, it's not very wise of the team to just straight up consider complaints about the fun factor not important and ignore them.

    Complaints about the fun factor come from both sides. Victimization and generalization blinds the speaker, thus making the whole issue exaggerated and irrelevant to a certain extent.

    That they come from both sides is not part of that issue, both should be lended an ear, or an eye in the forum's case.
    They're not blind either, most unfun experiences that are explained on here are experienced multiple times in quick succession before they'll write it down, otherwise it's something you can brush off.
    If i only got a 4 DS SWF team every 200 hours, i don't think i'd ever complain about them.

    That's what I'm talking about. "Both should be lended an ear". Exactly. That's why I'm against constant victimization and memeing, because it minimizes one side, to the detriment of the other.

    It only minimizes one side if the one who with the issue presents it in such a way.
    Lend them an ear at first, then judge, is how i view the right way.
    Someone with the title of "This is why i'm not having fun" is usually too quickly judged from my point of view, or at least what i've frequently seen on the Steam forums.

    Sure, no feedback should be ignored and I agree not everyone is "obliged" to discuss about each side every time he wants to point out something improvable in the game; but as a matter of my perspective (I'm saying this based on my experience on Steam's forums), many issues have been presented and discussed in "competition" with the counterpart, in fact, minimizing whatever other issue could have been raised as a valid argument of discussion.

    For example: if a player is having a bad experience (killerside) and he proposes a list of buffs which will enhance his fun factor to the detriment of survivors gameplay experience.. Then it's simply WRONG to minimize the counter-argument (maybe an objection to the buffs, which could probably create another fun-factor issue at a different level of play) just because that player plays the victim card.

    Rank 1 survivor.
    https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197986209573/stats/381210/achievements/
    Now what?

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Steebear said:

    1. Sorry, but dropping the chase against a looper is the dumbest thing you could do.

    I stopped reading here frankly. If you don't realise as a 'killer main' that continuing to chase someone who is great at wasting your time while the other 3 do all the gens then I am not sure what to say to you. Can you even logically explain how that makes any sense at all?

    I watched the clip and you didn't try any mind games on the Ming Mong you just followed her around like a faithful hound taking each stun in the face. You didn't even see the rest of them for the game so how they can be considered toxic is beyond me. The game would have been boring for them because you tunneled the Feng so they were on M1 gen repair simulator.

    The fact is that good killers know how to manage the match better than this and make the game fun for all by hooking them up and regressing gens and generally having a 15 or 20 minute fun game rather than an 8 minute bore fest.

    Of course sometimes you will get toxic survivors but I saw nothing here that was toxic at all it seemed you just got frustrated because she ran you for 4 gens and then they naturally tried to be altruistic because they had no points yet.

    Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
    If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Steebear said:

    1. Sorry, but dropping the chase against a looper is the dumbest thing you could do.

    I stopped reading here frankly. If you don't realise as a 'killer main' that continuing to chase someone who is great at wasting your time while the other 3 do all the gens then I am not sure what to say to you. Can you even logically explain how that makes any sense at all?

    I watched the clip and you didn't try any mind games on the Ming Mong you just followed her around like a faithful hound taking each stun in the face. You didn't even see the rest of them for the game so how they can be considered toxic is beyond me. The game would have been boring for them because you tunneled the Feng so they were on M1 gen repair simulator.

    The fact is that good killers know how to manage the match better than this and make the game fun for all by hooking them up and regressing gens and generally having a 15 or 20 minute fun game rather than an 8 minute bore fest.

    Of course sometimes you will get toxic survivors but I saw nothing here that was toxic at all it seemed you just got frustrated because she ran you for 4 gens and then they naturally tried to be altruistic because they had no points yet.

    I never claimed to be a Killer main.

    And I'm not sure that you realize it doesn't really matter if continue to chase them or not, especially when there is a high likelihood the next Survivor is gonna loop you too. Not sure why you don't realize this as a "killer main."

    Did you seriously just call her Ming Mong? Should I still even take you seriously? Again, there is no way to "mindgame" most pallets, check the other clip I posted against a Trapper that tried to "mindgame" me. He also ate every pallet to the face. A good survivor won't get mindgamed at a pallet because it's stupid easy.

    The game would have been boring for me if I dropped the Feng and just started chasing another looper. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I don't see your point.

    The fact that good Killers like ScottJund couldn't beat Marth's squad despite them running 0 perks should show you that no matter what, the Killer's victory and the pace of the game is completely dependent on the skill of the survivors and whether or not they make many mistakes, considered they have a ton of get out of jail free cards.

    The 4 DC was toxic. That's all I needed to see.

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105

    I never claimed to be a Killer main.

    Apologies I misread the main on the opening post.

  • VancoldVancold Member Posts: 187

    Having previously saw your profile on Steam forums made my statement just a tease indicating scepticism.
    It was more or less like saying: you don't even know what you're talking about.

    So, let's agree to disagree, I guess.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Vancold said:

    Having previously saw your profile on Steam forums made my statement just a tease indicating scepticism.
    It was more or less like saying: you don't even know what you're talking about.

    So, let's agree to disagree, I guess.

    I can live with that.
    You might not remember, but we have been discussing those things almost a year ago.
    Our positions haven´t changed since then.
    So it might be better to settle it, by saying we both agree that we disagree.

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105
    edited May 2018

    And I'm not sure that you realize it doesn't really matter if continue to chase them or not, especially when there is a high likelihood the next Survivor is gonna loop you too. Not sure why you don't realize this as a "killer main."

    I didn't say I was a killer main?

    Of course it matters, did you notice that after you got her down and found the others you downed them much faster? They were likely not nearly as good at running as she was. Billy can easily chainsaw and find them at gens and take them down really quickly, not to mention they have less to work with once the Feng has used some material up. This is just simple management for a killer, you leave her to heal up and apply pressure elsewhere. What you did was literally a 'don't do 101' for a killer.

    Did you seriously just call her Ming Mong? Should I still even take you seriously? Again, there is no way to "mindgame" most pallets, check the other clip I posted against a Trapper that tried to "mindgame" me. He also ate every pallet to the face. A good survivor won't get mindgamed at a pallet because it's stupid easy.

    It was a reference plenty of people in the community will get...it doesn't make any difference to the validity of my argument but by all means choose to ignore my comments if you don't want to listen to someone with a different point of view. I suspect the trapper wasn't that great then, especially with the new pallet system mindgaming will become even stronger if you know how to do it.

    The game would have been boring for me if I dropped the Feng and just started chasing another looper. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I don't see your point.

    You have no idea if they would also be good at looping and the chances are they wouldn't. You could tell very early on that she WANTED you to chase her. You were asking for trouble. It is her job by the way to try and evade you, was she supposed to surrender?

    The fact that good Killers like ScottJund couldn't beat Marth's squad despite them running 0 perks should show you that no matter what, the Killer's victory and the pace of the game is completely dependent on the skill of the survivors and whether or not they make many mistakes, considered they have a ton of get out of jail free cards.

    An on comms 4 man SWF is always going to win because they game mechanics simply cannot support this and remain balanced. We all know this so I don't see why you bring it up? These guys were not amazing survivors and may not even have been ina 4 man, but even if they were...they all ended up on the floor ... do you think that was a fun experience for them? Would it have killed you to hook a couple when three were floored and had some fun? If 'winning' is the be all and end all then the fun has already gone for you as killer.

    The 4 DC was toxic. That's all I needed to see.

    Disconnecting is not by definition 'toxic'. Killers that go out of their way to make the game experience rubbish can expect to get a DC, why bother sitting on the floor forever when you can move on and find a better game?

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 11,773

    On another note, i noticed how that Claudette was pretty much the icing on the cake in that clip.
    She didn't even move to try and find the Hatch, she just waited there for you to pick her up, THEN disconnect.

    How much of a sore loser can you be?
    "I'll either wait until the last second of my bleed-out timer and then disconnect, or i disconnect as soon as i'm picked up, cause [BAD WORD] you for winning, Killer."

    It's still not as bad as people disconnecting during a Mori animation though, i REALLY want the Mori to not be able to be cancelled by the Killer, and then i want the disconnect button to not be available during the Mori. (Yes, they can still pull the plug, but that can't ever be resolved, so tough luck.)

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105
    edited May 2018

    Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
    If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

    Sorry to have to inform you that some of us in the community can reach rank 1 without the need for Ruin and camping and getting all angry at the game and actually have FUN. We can have longer games where saves can be made and chases for all players where everybody ends up pipping assuming they don't make awful mistakes. Not all of us have a fixed mindset that 'all survivors at high rank can loop so I'll just tunnel all game and get angry'.

    I have to ask, what experience do you have at the top end of the ranks as killer to suggest all survivors are so good at looping? It sure isn't my experience but then I don't chase the same person all game.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @Steebear said:

    Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
    If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

    Sorry to have to inform you that some of us in the community can reach rank 1 without the need for Ruin and camping and getting all angry at the game and actually have FUN. We can have longer games where saves can be made and chases for all players where everybody ends up pipping assuming they don't make awful mistakes. Not all of us have a fixed mindset that 'all survivors at high rank can loop so I'll just tunnel all game and get angry'.

    I have to ask, what experience do you have at the top end of the ranks as killer to suggest all survivors are so good at looping? It sure isn't my experience but then I don't chase the same person all game.

    I've gotten to Rank 1 without camping as well. I also don't use Ruin. I have my matches on my twitch still, so I'm not sure the point you're making here.

    You don't get frustrated at pallet looping. I'm not you, and that doesn't make pallet looping not an issue either. I have long games, I have fun matches at high rank. But these matches are few and far between, and almost nonexistent against high rank SWF squads.

    What experience do I have? The one still on my twitch channel.

  • nettynetty Member Posts: 9

    These survivors are marginally toxic and definitely don't warrant the "This is why Killers hate Survivors." caption. You can make the same argument for all those leatherfaces camping basements or piggies crouching next to trapped survivors. As a survivor your aim is to escape and I don't see the problem with using the tools at your disposal to do so. If a survivor repeatedly crouching gets you so annoyed it might make it more likely for you to make mistakes then hey, good on them for trying to gain an advantage.

    Why are you demanding "respect and honor" from survivors just because you chose to play killer that game? If you're not capable of doing anything to earn it by playing well and actually making them scared of the killer then that's on you. Plus let's not forget it's a video game where people want to have fun.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Steebear said:

    Those 20 minute rank 20 matches sure must be tense...
    If he ignores a high rank looper, chances are, that the next player is also a looper. Since looping is so braindead easy.

    Sorry to have to inform you that some of us in the community can reach rank 1 without the need for Ruin and camping and getting all angry at the game and actually have FUN. We can have longer games where saves can be made and chases for all players where everybody ends up pipping assuming they don't make awful mistakes. Not all of us have a fixed mindset that 'all survivors at high rank can loop so I'll just tunnel all game and get angry'.

    I have to ask, what experience do you have at the top end of the ranks as killer to suggest all survivors are so good at looping? It sure isn't my experience but then I don't chase the same person all game.

    I never mentioned Ruin or Camping.
    I don´t use Ruin, since experienced survivors just push through it, or know every totem spawn. So it either gets cleansed in the first minute or people just ignore it.
    Usually i don´t camp. But nowadays everything is called camping.

    But please, feel free to show me a match at rank 1 that takes 20 minutes.

  • weirdkid5weirdkid5 Member Posts: 2,066

    @netty said:
    These survivors are marginally toxic and definitely don't warrant the "This is why Killers hate Survivors." caption. You can make the same argument for all those leatherfaces camping basements or piggies crouching next to trapped survivors. As a survivor your aim is to escape and I don't see the problem with using the tools at your disposal to do so. If a survivor repeatedly crouching gets you so annoyed it might make it more likely for you to make mistakes then hey, good on them for trying to gain an advantage.

    Why are you demanding "respect and honor" from survivors just because you chose to play killer that game? If you're not capable of doing anything to earn it by playing well and actually making them scared of the killer then that's on you. Plus let's not forget it's a video game where people want to have fun.

    Your last paragraph is exactly why I made this post in the first place. The mechanics of the game keep it from being fun for many high rank killers when they face survivors who know how to utilize them, it becomes nigh impossible to win. Most of the top level streamers, who mind you are pretty good, realize that everyone except Nurse pretty much has an abysmal time winning against the most broken thing in the game.

    SWF.

  • VancoldVancold Member Posts: 187

    @GeneratorJake said:
    Hmm

    i lol'd

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105

    I never mentioned Ruin or Camping.
    I don´t use Ruin, since experienced survivors just push through it, or know every totem spawn. So it either gets cleansed in the first minute or people just ignore it.
    Usually i don´t camp. But nowadays everything is called camping.

    But please, feel free to show me a match at rank 1 that takes 20 minutes.

    I didn't say that you had mentioned them I simply added it for expanse. I didn't indicate that I play at rank 20 but you felt the need to make a snarky and unnecessary post suggesting that was the only rank where such games could exist. I have informed you otherwise.

    I don't personally stream but feel free to drop into any good killers stream and watch a while, I would recommend either Lefty or Fudge for starters.

  • JEWberryJEWberry Member Posts: 76
    kimukipi said:

    @weirdkid5 said:
    This video right here is the reason Killers hate you all so much. Excuse the language, especially at the end of the video:

    Worst Game In A Long Time

    For those not willing to watch the clip, I ended up winning this one. I made a few mistakes here and there as Killer as it has been a minute, but I just wanted this to be here to show how hypocritical Survivor mains really are. Keep in mind I AM A SURVIVOR MAIN.

    This is why Killers camp you. This is why Killers hate you. This is why they all call you a bunch of babies that have to have their hands held. Where is your sense of respect and honor? These guys had the gall to call me a tryhard, but seemed to be a full 4 stack, looped me, teabagged me, taunted me, disrespected me as a Killer at every opportunity, and then quit my game when they get bodied?

    This game is still hugely frustrating. You can see towards the end of the video how my screen is shaking, because I'm so angry my hand cannot stay still. These players continue to make playing Killer a living nightmare. The new pallet changes are good, there are several instances in this video where I manage to land hits I otherwise wouldn't have due to the removal of the vacuum.

    However the problem of looping is still ever so present. As you can see, pallet spawns are still absolutely ridiculous. At what point do you plan to make this game fun for the Killers, BHVR?

    Hey, killer main here. I understand what you are trying to convey but, THIS particular game was far from toxic. I was expecting constant t-bag after every pallet drop, flashlight stuns and etc but nothing except for that Feng t-bagging at you once. I play in Asia and its almost always against a bunch of toxic little sh*ts. Name a BM in game and you get it. Zero remorse. I have made my peace with it since any competitive game is expected to have toxicity to some degree and now I just laugh it off mostly. My advice, don't let it get to you.

    Although he isn’t a killer main, i still agree with your point. I laugh when survivors start to teabag and rapid fire their flashlights just because it is now funny to me. Now i also do it as a survivor but it’s mostly just mindless at this point with no real intent of pissing off the killer, pretty much a habit. So it just makes me laugh when someone else does it to me and i just say “haha come here u little [BAD WORD]”(jokingly). Although i do not like the end game chat toxicity, that is annoying because they try to blame u for their own mistakes. Some people can’t accept their own problems and have to push it on others to satisfy their humongous egos.
  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105
    edited May 2018

    Your last paragraph is exactly why I made this post in the first place. The mechanics of the game keep it from being fun for many high rank killers when they face survivors who know how to utilize them, it becomes nigh impossible to win. Most of the top level streamers, who mind you are pretty good, realize that everyone except Nurse pretty much has an abysmal time winning against the most broken thing in the game.

    SWF.

    But your post was not aimed at the developers asking them if they feel SWF is working as intended. You directed it at survivor mains. They are just using what is available to them. I don't need to 'win' to have a good time in game I just want to make it competitive. The balance issue is completely separate and not a reason for killers to hate survivors.

    I've gotten to Rank 1 without camping as well. I also don't use Ruin. I have my matches on my twitch still, so I'm not sure the point you're making here.

    I was responding to the (snarky) comment made by another user here not any point that you made.

    You don't get frustrated at pallet looping. I'm not you, and that doesn't make pallet looping not an issue either. I have long games, I have fun matches at high rank. But these matches are few and far between, and almost nonexistent against high rank SWF squads.

    I have not suggested that looping is not a possible issue albeit one they have specifically addressed in this update and has already been rendered less effective (you even referenced this in your video clip when you took the Claudette down)

    What I am trying to say is that on the evidence presented in your clip, it is your methods as a killer that are hindering your efforts as opposed to something more fundamentally wrong or the toxic nature of survivors. You look pretty able with the chainsaw itself but what I am suggesting is that you can work harder to pressure survivors to your advantage.

    I will give an example using your game, if you had broken off the chase as soon as you had the Feng injured you could have then gone and pressured a gen that may have had 2 others working on it, chances are you can get a quick hit in, regress the gen and then go hunting again, you know have a maximum of 1 survivor working a gen and 2 injured. This is opposed to continuing the chase and having 3 of them working gens and finishing them. One of these two scenarios is preferable to the other would you agree?

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Steebear said:

    I never mentioned Ruin or Camping.
    I don´t use Ruin, since experienced survivors just push through it, or know every totem spawn. So it either gets cleansed in the first minute or people just ignore it.
    Usually i don´t camp. But nowadays everything is called camping.

    But please, feel free to show me a match at rank 1 that takes 20 minutes.

    I didn't say that you had mentioned them I simply added it for expanse. I didn't indicate that I play at rank 20 but you felt the need to make a snarky and unnecessary post suggesting that was the only rank where such games could exist. I have informed you otherwise.

    I don't personally stream but feel free to drop into any good killers stream and watch a while, I would recommend either Lefty or Fudge for starters.

    Once you find a 20 minute match on rank 1, send me the link.

  • RuniverRuniver Member Posts: 2,095

    I've been tagged a lot in here.
    Let's say it : I didn't read the first 3 pages, since you guys went apeshit. I'll just give my opinion about the round.
    Don't forgot I'm in Europe guys, when it's midnight for you, it's 6 A.M+ for me, kek.

    So I've watched the video and I'll be honest :
    I didn't see anything wrong with it, except that the survivors did a lot of mistakes at the end of it, giving you a free win. I'm not sure about where your complaints are at, it seems like my everyday match at high ranks tbh (Except I do not commit that much to a single chase)

    And yes, it's pretty stressful for the killer (sadly), but atm, that's how the game is designed and we're forced to deal with it if we wanna play.

    I don't see much toxicity, just decent teamplay, decent repairs, and decent juking from that Feng that outplayed you a few times even tho she was pretty readable.
    She did the usual thing most survivors do : She first plays greedy to see how you react, allowing you to, at some point (after several fails) get a free hit (that you could have got WAY earlier if you actually won the mindgames/had proper readings), and then, she played full safe not to risk to get caught and camped. She seemed very common to me, and would have totally deserved to be dropped since it's a clear case of a survivor wanting your attention in a strong spot of the map (the killer's shack).

    You actually got pretty lucky this match to have been able to catch them due to their overaltruism (that Jake trying to heal around a Billy is a moron for example).

    Let's resume it :

    • You failed two easy chainsaw early game, even tho they didn't even move that much to dodge it.
    • Then, you dropped that Claudette after catching her, which is rather debatable, especially since it's around the shack, and a hook was actually very close. Even a stack of 3 bodyblockers wouldn't have stopped you. But anyway : it was your choice and it's possibly your playstyle, and I respect it. Slugging is a possible good strategy for Billy. Slugging around the shack with full pallets around is still very debatable tho.
    • Then, you tried to get a basement hook, which was obviously not gonna happen, since getting someone in the basement is already a 30%+ wiggle time awarded to the survivor, and you gave her 33% already with that drop.
    • Then, you overcommited to Feng. You failed quite a bit there, I have to say. At some point, she started playing very safe with pallets, because she knew she could afford it, as her team was skyrocking ahead in term of gens, and you were fully going for her. She ran into gen empty areas on purpose (it was very visible) and emptied the pallets of these areas.
    • Then, you (finally) caught her. And the other survivors went fullstupid and suicided on you, even tho you (STILL) failed a lot of chainsaw rushes that was very affordable.
    • The disconnections are not an issue, it's PTB and the game was over. Move on to the next match.

    I'm not sure where the complaints are at.
    You missed a few clutch moments in your match, allowing them to get ahead of you, and they did several mistakes that made you to catch up.

    That (long) chase with Feng is possibly the most debatable moment, but she actually read through you and even afforded to get a free hit just to try to be cocky.

    Arguable points :
    Yes, the gens are repaired super quickly, and yes, a single survivor can keep you busy for quite a while, tho it was partly due to your own mistakes and choices in here.

    I love you man, but I can't support you on that one, even tho you can see that the survivors are kind of in control of the game if they don't fail (and they failed a lot this match).
    Survivors weren't toxic, they were just random bodyblockers and obviously over-altruistic (like most survivors). No teabagging, nothing too cocky (except that extra loop she tried on you and earned her a hit), no flashlight spam, no syringue spam, no emote spams, and not even that much looping tbh. At least compared to the rounds I usually play at high ranks, that was NOTHING.

    Cheers.

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105
    edited May 2018

    Once you find a 20 minute match on rank 1, send me the link.

    I stated 15-20 mins so I needn't find you one that lasts 20 to make my point. I would appreciate it if you did some of your own research to contribute to this conversation rather than make throwaway comments but if I get chance outside of work to look through some games I will send you a link.

  • SteebearSteebear Member Posts: 105

    Survivors weren't toxic, they were just random bodyblockers and obviously over-altruistic (like most survivors). No teabagging, nothing too cocky (except that extra loop she tried on you and earned her a hit), no flashlight spam, no syringue spam, no emote spams, and not even that much looping tbh. At least compared to the rounds I usually play at high ranks, that was NOTHING.

    This whole post was spot on.

  • TsulanTsulan Member Posts: 6,158

    @Steebear said:

    Once you find a 20 minute match on rank 1, send me the link.

    I stated 15-20 mins so I needn't find you one that lasts 20 to make my point. I would appreciate it if you did some of your own research to contribute to this conversation rather than make throwaway comments but if I get chance outside of work to look through some games I will send you a link.

    Okay than a 15 minute match on rank 1.
    I don´t have to search them, since i haven´t stated that there are rank 1 matches which take 15 to 20 minutes.
    Ohh and don´t try to link a match where the survivors took the game hostage.

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