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why do so many killer mains immediately want any good survivor perk(cough cough meddle of man) nerfd

carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102
edited November 2019 in General Discussions

even the new perk any means neccesary has such a long cooldown that it's yellow



  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    but so many killers already think it's not

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    MoM required them to get hit so i feel you would benefit from it unless they have dead hard and a pre-nerf anti-hemorragic needle

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    but i bet you that AMN will get nerfed

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    AMN may be good but my favorite is breakout holy cow that is useful

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    oni's first and last perks are really good too

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102
    edited November 2019

    now what would be op is fixing a broken pallet

  • Pokerface303Pokerface303 Member Posts: 110

    Eveyone in the game gets hit already so old mettle was just a free protection hit without having to earn it. New mettle is fine but pre nerf was probably the most broken perk in the game.

  • FireHazardFireHazard Member, Trusted Posts: 7,314
    edited November 2019


    It's because Mettle of Man was an unbalanced perk right out the door, perks like DS that had literally no counter or Mettle of Man that ALSO had no countenr were in-general not good for the overall health and balance of the game.

    Having an extra hit that's undeserved and easy to obtain is... quite an issue for the overall balance. The same goes for DS, a free escape with no downside to a long chase is ALSO a big issue to keep in the game.

    That's also why insta-heals were changed as well, being able to fully heal a downed Survivor that took the Killer literally 4 minutes to down is pretty unfair... especially if you don't down that Survivor than they'll just do generators and gen rush you.

    Your only hope in most these scenarios is to go after the "weaker link" but if everyone has insta-heals, Pre-nerf DS, Pre-nerf Mettle of Man, than they can easily negate a lot of progress that the Killer is trying to achieve. This is especially bad if you're facing a coordinated team or a SWFs with or without coms.

    I'm glad that BHVR fixed these issues, mainly because the perk builds you would face started to blend together after awhile...

  • SaintDenisSlasherSaintDenisSlasher Member Posts: 227

    Because survivors already have the overwhelming advantage and killers are constantly getting nerfed lol

    Btw i haven't played killer in like a week so.... Basically a survivor main.

    Also i haven't seen anyone complain about that since the rework, if you're arguing it should be brought back post nerf i agree! The killers SHOULD be treated as NPCs and i should ALWAYS win. Sure i win most games now but what about the ones i don't? I know im a good player the killers are just OP if i had better perks like one that could give me just ONE more hit(just ONE) i would cream them everytime im sure of it

  • Tygre_DBDTygre_DBD Member Posts: 34

    Well killers get nerfed so why shouldn't theirs

  • ASpazNamedSteveASpazNamedSteve Member Posts: 1,783

    MoM at release was insanely busted lol. Was such an unfair perk.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    That's not really how game balancing works. It's not about us versus them, it's about what's best for the health of the game overall. Thinking about nerfs and buffs in terms of what's "fair" is juvenile and detrimental to good game design.

    Having said that, this thread is a question, not a discussion, so it's not really an appropriate place for us to have a debate about it.

  • TodgeweihtTodgeweiht Member Posts: 3,666

    Not even a question, just a butthurt rant

  • ShaderzShaderz Member Posts: 42

    Because they are ridiculously overpowered, how is that hard to understand?

    The biggest issue, in my opinion, is that they can't/couldn't get countered, as opposed to killer perks which you may find pretty buffed. Here are a few examples:

    • Hex: Ruin: You can counter this perk by cleansing a determined totem.
    • BBQ: You can counter this perk by hiding in a locker or getting closer to the killer.
    • Nurse's Calling: You can counter this by healing yourself or a team mate far away from the killer.

    Now for survivors, a lot of them can not or couldn't (before they got nerfed) get countered. Here are a few examples as well:

    • Old Decisive Strike: Nearly impossible to counter unless you were very close to a hook so that you could dribble the downed survivor. However, any good team mate would easily body block you and most of the times take a hit for you, giving the survivor enough time to strike that skill check.
    • Old Mettle of Man: You simply couldn't counter it. No matter what happened in the game, any survivor who used to run this perk would eventually end up getting another chance to escape the killer as soon as they hit you. In other words, MoM was extremely overpowered because not only did it allow the survivor to waste the killer even more time than they already did, but it basically punished the killer for doing his objective without any skill involved on the survivor's side (literally all you had to do was run the perk and bam, let it do all the work for you).
    • Borrowed Time: This is quite debatable and I'm personally 50/50 on this. Once again, it gives survivors another chance to escape from the killer more than they are supposed to have. However, it prevents tunneling and punishes the killer for playing dirty and low. Killers can counter this by waiting a certain time before the perk's use time runs down, however, it is against the purpose of the game (survivors try to get hit so they can get that extra boost while killers don't do it because they suspect you might have it - this shouldn't happen, as killers should be encouraged to hit survivors and down them and survivors should try to escape, not catch a hit to gain an advantage over them - it's basically counter-intuitive).

    I hope I was able to clarify some things for you.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 5,310

    Perks like old DS, MoM, etc, were strong by themselves in a vaccuum on one survivor. But you also have consider perk synergy on a single survivor and also consider the possibility that multiple survivors in the same trial have the same perk. You could maybe counter a single DS or MoM or eat it and be ok. But when every survivor in the trial had old DS or MoM it was absolutely over the top, and as much as meta slave killers get complained about, we don't often see survivors running Slippery Meat or Deja Vu.

  • JoekilluJoekillu Member Posts: 164

    Really that's a thing? Lol imp none of the perks should have been changed. Adapt an over come. The ones that have been changed were sometimes a pain to deal with, but they where normal quickly eliminated.

  • ZtarShotZtarShot Member Posts: 838

    I haven't played Oni since I'm a console player, and console players don't have access to the ptb, but he doesn't seem that op. I'm mean, it's just Myers with extra steps.

  • BossBoss Member, Trusted Posts: 13,580

    I don't care about Any Means Necessary, but Mettle of Man had big situational issues.

    On it's own, i thought it was fine.

    But against pure M1 Killers, equipped with Borrowed Time and then the 3 other Survivors run both those Perks, it really was way over the line.

  • HatCreatureHatCreature Member Posts: 3,298

    The OG MoM was too strong and too easy to get, my Devour Hope stacks are harder and more fair, that said I am very excited for the updated MoM as I have been wanting to use it since it released but refuse to use perks that are not fair; because I am a decent human being who care about others.

    Any Means Necessary is going to be interesting, I don't see it as a real perk, just something memey like Diversion, it has its place but it definitely isn't good. But maybe I'm wrong, I tend not to break pallets if I don't need to when the Survivor is either brave or stupid and run away from the loop so in that scenario the perk is good; but only that scenario.

  • SilentSpectreSilentSpectre Member Posts: 827

    MOM's old version cannot have been considered anything but brokenly OP, and anyone that says other than that is a liar.

  • PickCollinsPickCollins Member Posts: 495

    First of all, MoM in it's vanilla form was disgustingly overpowered. It needed a hard nerf like the one it got. Now the nerf went too far but that's almost only because of how inconsistent protection hits are at registering stacks of MoM.

    Killers usually ######### about survivor perks if they are OP if I"m being completely honest. Decisive strike? Was pretty much 100% use rate. Granted a free escape that barely had anything resembling counterplay.

    Mettle of Man? Same thing as DS. Gave a free hit for doing nothing but just playing the game and had zero counterplay.

    Balanced Landing? The passive on it should never have existed. Exhaustion perks are not meant to help you during exhaustion. It made Haddonfield an even more survivor sided mess of a map than it already is.

  • ApackawolvesApackawolves Member Posts: 65

    Call me crazy, but I didn’t really mind the old MoM that much. The way I viewed it, you already have to land 20 or so hits to win a match give or take a few, depending on which killer you’re playing. So you have to get a couple more, big whoopty whoop. Most people wasted it anyway, or allowed themselves to be in a bad position they wouldn’t normally find themselves in just to get stacks. Because if they didn’t get it until they were on death hook, it was game over. They would have to spend the rest of the match injured, or permanently reveal their aura. I won a ton of matches because of that aura reveal coming in clutch at the end. Don’t get me wrong, it could be a serious problem with insta heals. But, on its own...meh. I wasn’t too worried about it.

  • humanbeing1704humanbeing1704 Member Posts: 7,038

    mettle of man deserved it's nerf when it was announced but then they removed safe unhooks and made it useless

  • carters_sparkcarters_spark Member Posts: 102

    if you take off the passive on balenced landing for haddonfield it makes the map completly unfair for new survivors

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768

    Honestly, i'm more afraid of breakout squads bodyblocking for each other.

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