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The Stats don't perfectly show balance

If you think if killer sided simply due to the killrate, I'm almost certain that most of that percentage is because of low ranks. At low ranks, survivors get demolished very easily.

At higher ranks, killers tend to get gripped by the survivors and the killer (if not top tier) is vs a swf or good group may stand literally no chance.

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Comments

  • se05239se05239 Member Posts: 3,920
    edited November 2019

    The thing about the stats they gave us is that its a mess of statistics from all platforms, merged into one. The only thing you can take for granted are the extremes (strongest/weakest) since its coherently the same across all platforms.

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 1,388

    Sure.

  • UlvenDagothUlvenDagoth Member Posts: 3,535

    Peanits Dev∙Community Manager › Dev, Community Manager Posts: 4,382

    November 25 edited November 25

    I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:

    PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT NUMBERS ARE NOT EVERYTHING; THERE ARE A WHOLE BUNCH OF FACTORS THAT COULD INFLUENCE THESE NUMBERS.

    To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balance based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.

    And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.

    So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.

  • arslaNarslaN Member Posts: 1,388

    I agree that stats don't necessarily show balance but the OP basically ignores the second graph entirely.

  • MarcusMarcus Member Posts: 1,705
    edited November 2019

    Devs confirmed that these stats don't represent a balance point in DbD.

    Post edited by Marcus on
  • RWoodrowRWoodrow Member Posts: 251

    The only things these stats prove is that the devs need to stop giving them out. Even when the devs say that the numbers "are not everything" and can "be influenced by a number of factors", too many people want to use the numbers to spin their own narcissistic narrative because the game isn't balanced to their specifications.

  • MandyTalkMandyTalk Mod, Co-ordinator Posts: 4,817

    Stats can never show the full story because there is so many other factors at play, such as perks, playstyles etc. That's why you cannot go on stats alone, sorry for those that think we should - but it just doesn't work like that.

  • TKTKTKTK Member Posts: 422
    edited November 2019

    The stats have console included, they balance for pc, idk why console stats are even in there.

  • knellknell Member Posts: 460

    @MandyTalk

    Were you able to read the other thread where i tagged you about some particular questions? If you don't know, can you tag someone who can answer them? Basically i asked the following:

    1. Can you define what types of matches constituted as being 'Red Ranks' matches? (e.g. - a.) All 5 players started the match in Red Ranks, b.) Killer started the match in Red Rank but not necessarily survivors, c.) All 4 survivors started in Red Ranks but not necessarily the killer, d.) at least 1 player started the match in Red Rank, e.) majority of the players (3/5) started the match in Red Ranks.)

    2. Why were the Nurse's kill rate statistic only given for PC? Can you provide them for the other consoles?

  • TheCrookedManTheCrookedMan Member Posts: 261

    People should stop saying this. There literally is no difference between console and PC in terms of balance. The only thing that is affected by this is the framerate drops that deter some console players from playing nurse, but that's literally it. And even then it can still be done. Like seriously, where did people get the idea that there is this huge difference between console and PC its pretty ridiculous.

  • TheCrookedManTheCrookedMan Member Posts: 261
    edited November 2019

    I don't want to agree, because I find these stats interesting in terms of what everyone is picking. And I think it's a good idea to measure pick rate because it might be a measure of who's the most fun. However I'm going to HAVE to agree. The devs should probably stop handing them out. Otherwise we'll get post like this where people will be all "AHA! This PROVES that...."

    And it's super annoying how people will outright ignore the devs saying "Do not draw any conclusions from this." But people will decide to make posts about it anyway. Like...stop...can we not do this? I'm so sick of these posts.

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 842
    edited November 2019

    Remember to play Killer so you have a 50/50 experience and your opinion actually matters.

    I play tons of surv, hit red ranks on both every season.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 1,991

    Except that it's true that these kind of stats are not fully representative of the game's balance. There are way too many factors that influence these stats. It would be the same thing if survivor rate would be above 50%.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    So are we all going to ignore that the Nurse's kill rate on the PC only graph is nearly identical to the mixed console/PC red rank graph?

    I do also agree about not releasing stats. They're neat to look at but people are just going to keep their opinions even if the stats don't support it, because most people posting on here are statistically illiterate.

    If you're aiming for an average of 50/50, and literally every killer in the game is significantly above that, then something *is* wrong. Could be a whole bunch of things (maybe it's too easy to rank up as survivor, maybe moris are used frequently).

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 1,991

    Wait who is?

    To be fair though these stats also show that multiple killers probably don't need any buffs. If kill rates get to high, that would mean survivors don't get to escape very often at all, reducing the motivation to play survivor. It also shows why we can't balance this game around perfectly organized 4 man swf's, and why increasing objective time at the moment without a plethora of other changes at the same time would ruin this game.

  • PluPlu Member Posts: 1,209

    Theses stats would have more meaning of they were way more specific, like specifying the platform, SWF or not, perk builds/add-on/offerings used.

    Just the map stats alone are pretty worthless because it's all ranks and all platforms.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    No they wouldn't. You'd just move the goal post again once very little changed.

    They posted red rank nurse PC only kill rate and she's at 65.8%. If you look at the red rank graph, she's right around 65%. And that's on a killer that everyone acknowledges is harder to play on console than PC.

  • PluPlu Member Posts: 1,209

    Yeah because 1 killer is enough to draw conclusions like this.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 479

    what I want to see from Nurse specifically is pick rate after rework, for a total of 3 months post rework. Her pick rate for the last 3 months is one of the lower ones, and the final graph doesn’t mention pick rate. Peanits said immediately post rework her pick rate went up as people tried the changes out, and that does make sense, but I want to know if, assuming no further changes, she’s still picked as often as she used to be come January. People are reporting seeing far fewer Nurses post rework, and I’m curious to see if that’s accurate or bias. I know my Nurse doesn’t show up anymore personally, since I don’t find her fun to play anymore, but I’m one player...I’m not indicative of the whole.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 1,991

    There's so much that goes into this. DC's, survivors suiciding on hooks, Moris, keys, afk killers, and in particular match making and ranking. It only takes one lesser skilled survivor to screw over the entire team.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    DCs aren't counted in these stats, per Peanits. Also per Peanits on last time these stats were done, DCs don't really change what they look like.

    For the other stuff, that's what's nice about average over large data sets. Unless keys and moris are being run every game, they end up being noise that gets drowned out by the sheer volume of games played.

    But uhh I guess continue trying to come up with reasons why the stats are wrong rather than just... considering you might be mistaken?

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 1,991

    I'm not coming up with any reasons for why the stats are wrong, no. I just gave some reason as to why the stats aren't fully representative of the game's balance, pointing out what factors have an affect on these stats. I see no reason to ignore those.

    Of course, Moris and keys have the least influence on these stats, but I don't think they should be ignored. Matchmaking and ranking obviously has the most influence on the stats.

    Also, if you say dc's aren't counted, does that mean the entire match isn't counted? Since one survivor dcing or suiciding on hook often screws over the other three survivors and gets them killed, even though they would have had a chance to escape if that one survivor didn't rage quit.

  • UncannyLuckUncannyLuck Member Posts: 210

    I believe that the entire match was discarded if there was a DC, according to Peanits. I don't know if they excluded suicide on hook.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 1,991

    That would be smart and make the stats at least a bit more representative of the game's balance.

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 842
    edited November 2019

    Thanks Peanits. For not immediately treating me like garbage and twisting my words. I'm so proud of this community. My red rank comment WASNT about the survival rate being lower.

    Question, however. Are DCs included in the stats?

  • NinoV1NinoV1 Member Posts: 382

    Unfortunately it doesn’t take into account that when versing SWF, they usually get overly altruistic and get killed on their first hook saving a friend etc.


    Do the stats show gen times and number of hooks etc? I’d like to see it in details, cause kills aren’t everything.

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