You mean what if they’re not included in the stats?
It makes a big difference. Camping, tunneling, AFK, ... all result in a quick 3v1 and a quick 3v1 game is what killers aim for. Why? Because applying pressure is SO much easier, meaning their chances of getting more than 2 kills gets higher.
I’m sorry if you think I insulted you but I didn’t. I did however call out all the loose and inaccurate language in the thread of which you were also guilty. He never said the data was useless. And again, I think for myself. I deal with large data sets all day long. I probably would also recommend that people not versed in dealing with large data sets try to draw conclusions from this data. But I’m comfortable doing so. The data is accurate, and the data does support my point.
You need to understand, an “authority” saying not to draw conclusions from data shouldn’t stop anyone from thinking logically about the data. If someone presents me with solid reasons why this data doesn’t support my arguments, then I’ll listen.
Okay, solid reasons:
It lumps all platforms together.
It gives no detail.
It is very broad and doesn't show anything that can be used to make an accurate conclusion from.
There is no real data to "Think Logically" from. There is Pick rate and Kill rate. That's it. That's all. It's not saying what other factors are in the match or anything.
Peanits isn't just "an authority" he's a Dev and a Community Manager. I'm pretty sure he'd know. He's saying "Don't draw conclusions from the numbers." Which is EXACTLY what you are doing.
It doesn't even show if anyone was AFK, Hook suicides or DC'ed. All of those things would effect the Kill rate.
And yes, you did insult me. I, in fact, see Mandy changed your post. You implied I was not an adult or had no idea what I was talking about or both. I assure you, I do and am likely older than you think. If you are comfortable drawing conclusions from data with no real detail or merit, then please also be comfortable with someone disagreeing with what in the end is your own judgement based on a loose collection of numbers.
Ok. Hopefully this puts an end to our side discussion;
The part about people being more accurate applied to everyone, including you. Everything after that, about people sniping and saying I’m misusing statistics etc... was not about you. It was about those other people sniping and adding nothing substantive. I hope that’s clear. All I said that related to you specifically was about being more exact.
As to your points:
Lumping platforms together. It would be nice to see the difference but don’t see this as mattering. What would we see? One format even worse and one not as bad? Still basically the same issue.
It gives no detail/it is very broad. It doesn’t need to. Those results are granular enough. How many kills per game average. That’s good info.
Theres no real data to think logically from / doesn’t show afk etc...
Again, yes there is data to think logically about and as long as we know dc matches aren’t included I do not see that afks etc would have any significant impact. Again... the facts are the kill rates. They average 75% per game. It’s pretty clear. Just for the heck of it, imagine the kill rates were even higher. What if they said spirit kill rates are 95%... but please don’t draw conclusions. Do we really just IGNORE that stat? Oh, uh maybe there are a lot of afks... give me a break. Those facts are enough to see there’s a problem.
Maybe if half the killers that played this didn't tunnel we wouldn't need to bring DS
No. I mean assume they are included. They would still make no difference. It feels like many of you are missing the point. Regardless of if survivors go afk or screw around or killers camp or tunnel... whatever... the end result is that killers average 3ks. So your average Freddy gets to win some games even easier from an afk here and there and then he has some hard ones, and at the end of his day of killing he has averaged 3ks a game. So even if some games are hard for him, the majority aren’t.
I think at this point it's best to just say we agree to disagree. We are being told not to draw conclusions based on the data, and it's broad enough to me that It means little to nothing. It's pointless numbers that are only gonna fuel people, like you, to jump to the same conclusions we are told not to jump too. It's gonna fuel the more vocal minority of Survivors (and Killers) To flood the forums with posts like this to "Prove a point." Personally, I don't care. I want to play the game for fun and not get insulted every step of the way. That and a Legion rework is all I care about at this point. But drawing the conclusion that "This game is Killer sided!" off the pathetic data we were given, and then being insulting and toxic to the people that disagree with you is probably the worst way to make your point. I'm sure there is hours of footage you could watch that shows Killers struggling to get anything done, and in fact I could provide you with some if I thought that you would really take any of it to heart. I hope you have fun in the Fog and have a good day.
Oh and one thing I saw earlier you didn't reply too that someone posted.
A list of factors that the stats provided do not show or take into account:
The game is still survivor sided.
.DO NOT USE THE STATS AS A JUDGEMENT OF BALANCE.
Hell yeah, I hate it that every time I take off DS the very next match it would have saved my life but every other match I might not get to, I don't like relying on [BAD WORD] like that.
They should really separate the different platforms for these statistics. I'd love to see the PS4 stats; I alone probably skew the numbers something awful with how I constantly meme and get myself killed as survivor.
Sounds good. I’m not being toxic or rude. I think it’s fair to call out anyone sniping at me with nothing to contribute (not talking about you). I think it’s also fair to call you out for being inaccurate and arguing against me with words that were never said. If you read all my posts here I think I’ve been pretty logical and open minded throughout. IMO these numbers say a lot and I think many people see this. It’s hard to deny that if super swf teams were truly an issue at high ranks we should see lower kill rates. We don’t. Thus even if we assume a super swf results in a 0k this means that for every 0k, these killers are getting 3 4ks. I think we’d all like to see more info...
If played right no survivor should die. Just bc LOTS of people suck doesn't mean killers are op, I play both and some ppl don't even look at ghost face they just run and die.
you can run a killer in circles for 10mins if your good.
Oh I noticed I just brainfarted there lmao.
The only thing those stats would prove then is an objective killer tier list based on stats though. Percentages of how many kills they get would be misinformation as the source of this info relies on survivors killing themselves and AFK’ing or the killer playing a scummy way. If you want to figure out which killer is overperforming based on their actual power, then those things should be considered and maybe even changed/punished rather than the killer itself.
most of those stats probably come from brown, yellow, green, and purple ranks. If you play trapper against rank 1s chances are you’ll be gen rushed before you even get set up, the point is most killers can’t play in red ranks because their power isn’t good enough. Spirit and nurse are most common in red ranks because they’re very good and can travel the map quickly which is why their win percentages are higher than the rest. This game heavily towards survivors, think about a 4 man SWF team, they have no debuffs being a 4 man, they’re all buffs. A killer is by themselves if they mess up a chase that’s wasted time and they have no one to rely on go fix their mistakes while survivors do.
no doubt about it, the game is unbalanced favouring the killer. also if you lose ONE survivor youre basically all gonna die
Not to mention that all the stats apart from Nurse's own graph are a combination of all platforms. Not all platforms treat their killer the same.
I think matches can go either way when it's played by good players from each side I play both killer and survivor and when I play killer I tank and bully survivors but when I play survivor I bully killers it legit all depends on how you and everyone else plays in general
Unless your team plays terribly, you’re not going to lose anyone in the early game. There’s also a lot more grey area as there’s many occasions where I survived when there were 3 or less survivors remaining.
The stats also were broken down just for red ranks. Even higher kill rates.
You are highly inaccurate.
I'm just gonna say one more thing then leave this alone for awhile...
If any of you have ever watched great players stream then you know how well a Master Killer can do and you know it fits this info. Master Killers get 4ks in red ranks all day long and their biggest challenge is Master SWF groups. However, from my experience watching them they still have a roughly 50% or better win rate, sometimes getting 4ks and sometimes 0ks, but usually at least 1 or 2k. This is regardless of build, play style, how many afks, etc etc. Over time and with large numbers of games you see the afks etc are not relevant. I agree it can muddy results but like a drop of salt in your Sprite... not at all to the extent that it would matter.
On the other hand even the best survivor streamers die in maybe half of their games, though they almost always earn enough points to pip.
I think the devs have a complicated nuanced approach to balancing this game. They may have a stated goal of 2ks being balanced but my intuition is that the ability to pip plays a big role in their balancing equation. The fact that survivors can die but still pip/win means something. It allows killers to have more fun and get more kills while allowing a survivor to claim victory. But obviously this has to be managed carefully. Taken to the extreme they could allow insanely powerful killers but grant points for the slightest survivor action allowing pipping after being 3 hooked in 30 secs. Pipping balance alone doesn't work. Players need a good gameplay experience and a shot at surviving. I get that it's complicated and they try hard to keep everyone happy, but it's difficult. And it's why stats that show what's actually happening are super important.
If nothing else, instead of ignoring these stats, consider my earlier point about if the stats had showed a 98% kill rate, "but don't draw conclusions". It's impossible not to. If killers were in fact killing 98% of the survivors there's a problem. you don't question builds or afks... the numbers are enough.The same is true with these numbers as they are.
Yea I said if they play correctly. Survivor can loop killers for the whole game, I've watched streams on lvl 1 killers and they get destroyed, if party chat was disabled you might have a point. And if you break it down to certain maps I might give you 1 kill, But 4 flash lights meta perks killers don't have a chance.
I don't get it though. I feel like many people have already pointed out why stats are not fully representative of the game's balance. It's pretty obvious in fact. The community manager peanits himself said that there is more to the game's balance than just kill rate. Obviously these stats shouldn't be ignored and are a good reason as to why killers don't need any general buffs anymore in my opinion, but still.
I'd laugh my ass off if every killer including the likes of Wraith and Clown would get nerfed.
At red ranks, a 2k is usually a de-pip for the killer and only a 4k will give you a pip in most cases.
A 75% kill rate at red ranks would make me assume an average black pip for the killer, 60% is maybe closer to a de-pip.
So instead of knowing only kill rates, it would be important to know the amount of pips, too.
I think that most people who play killer were not saying that kill rates were really low, or at least I wasn't, but that the only reason kill rates were decent is because survivors mess around/are bad on this game.
When, as a killer, you run into a swf with 4 toolboxes who play the game efficiently, you immediately understand how little impact your input has (at least on most killers).
Of course I win lots of games as killer, but that is down to survivor error more than my effort.
No, there's just people like you that don't understand how statistics and balance work. You see a number that isn't as close to 50% as possible and think that all killers are therefore overpowered and overperforming. That isn't the case and there are a lot of variables here.
BHVR simply decided to loosely base their balance around killers getting 2ks. That doesn't mean any killer is imbalanced or overperforming simply because their killrate is 65% or even 70%.
Again, you and the person replying to every single post in this don't quite understand balance or statistics. You just sound like a bad, bitter survivor with the idiotic things you just said relating to the Oni.
You'd be as dense as the devs would be if either would think "2 kills = balance" and took nothing else into consideration.
These stats are way to dependent on certain things let me point out that there are either survivors who suicide or screw around or a Mori those count as kills
Not every Joe is a "Master Killer".