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Another Nurse cooldown discussion

This post isn't intended to discuss the power level of the Nurse. This post isn't intended to discuss the power level of the Nurse. This post isn't intended to discuss the power level of the Nurse. I figured I'd put that there 3 times since a lot of users seem to think every Nurse player "wants easy 4ks". What I'd like to discuss is the validity of the cooldown on Nurse's power. The more I play her, the more I realize nearly every counterplay to the Nurse has nothing to do with whether or not there is a cooldown, which essentially means the cooldown wasn't necessary to begin with because survivors had the counterplay potential already. I'll present a few scenarios.

The most common scenario you encounter as a Nurse: Survivor turns a corner and breaks line of sight. You have two options, blink to the corner because you think they'll double back, or anticipate that they'll keep running and blink to where you think they'll go. A survivor could always juke a base 2 blink Nurse in this scenario. A cooldown had nothing to do with it. It's truly a 50/50 exchange when the Nurse has no information about a survivor's playstyle. The question then becomes: Why does the Nurse suffer a cooldown on top of fatigue from what amounts to an incorrect guess? The survivor holds just as many cards in this exchange.

The Nurse now reappears 0.3 seconds earlier. This is ample time to exit lunge range when timed correctly off of a direction change when Nurse releases her blink. If we're giving survivors the final word on an exchange in an open area, then why are we also giving Nurse a blink cooldown on top of a fatigue? Juking the lunge or baiting out a bad blink in this scenario has everything to do with with the change to her reappearance and nothing to do with the addition of a cooldown, so why is it there? Can the survivor not do this again? Is there any thought given to how fun it is to be punished when the other side does something correctly?

Another common scenario: you blink, go into fatigue, and survivor breaks line of sight. Not much more that needs to be said about it. That's the whole point of the fatigue. I guess my question again is why the cooldown when the majority of survivors that actually attempt to break line of sight are doing it during the fatigue window? What am I missing?

But overall, we have to consider the fact that blinking is 100% integral to everything Nurse does as a killer. This isn't the same thing as having to reload a bottle as Clown or having your phase on cooldown as Spirit. The Nurse can't viably do anything as a killer without being able to blink. By anything, I mean finding survivors, patrolling the map, etc. Every other killer on the roster can do those things to some degree without their power. I suspect that base Nurse was severely overrated or misunderstood internally.

Comments

  • PistolTimbPistolTimb Member Posts: 1,414

    I mean, isn't the fatigue she goes through already a cooldown? Why did they slap a cooldown on top of a cooldown?

  • DaGreenBoltDaGreenBolt Member Posts: 409

    Yeah the fatigue is meant to be a cooldown, but apparently that isn't enough to the Devs. I forgot what the Devs said, but it was about the Nurse blinking too much and that adding extra time to fatigue would hurt sensitive people (medical reasons). This leads me to believe none of them have ever played nurse before, or even tested the Nurse themselves.

    The added cooldown, the fact survivors can see the nurse reappear before the nurse actually reappears, and dedicated servers have killed the Nurse.

    Survivors can literally run in a straight line and outrun the nurse without range add ons. The nurse is now an add on dependent killer, and there is now a reason why her kill rate is so low, and this nerf is the reason.

    Here's another question that could be asked, Why did they nerf Nurse but not the survivor equivalent, which is SWF? (Instaheals are not an equivalent to the Nurse, yes they are very unfun to play against but they aren't SWF level. Also, don't start with not all SWF are sweaty or optimal, etc. because we could say the same for Nurse).

  • TragicSolitudeTragicSolitude Member Posts: 2,160

    Yeah, the cooldown is a load of crap. It's unnecessarily punishing and it just makes the Nurse less fun to play as. I used to challenge myself by playing as her on console; I haven't done that since the cooldown was added, because it's not rewarding enough to bother dealing with.

  • copperslycoppersly Member Posts: 915

    I completely agree with you, if they can fix a very niche issue killer than surely they can dedicate the resources to fixing a problem that plagues killers of all ranks and even survivors if the SWF team is toxic enough.

    Also I hate how they turned the model for what a killer and their power should be (doesn't NEED addons and the power is useful in many ways) and turned that on it's head. Now she needs addons and her power is extremely limiting and punishing to use despite needing to for everything. Bonkers they went 180 on good design :/

    And it's pretty obvious now no one on the balance team plays Nurse, or most killers it seems. If ANY of them did then they don't have the voice to stop the terrible changes.

  • DaGreenBoltDaGreenBolt Member Posts: 409
    edited December 2019

    Well even if any of them did play Nurse, they could at least voiced a concern or two and possibly have the nerfs not as detrimental as the ones here.

    But so far its really hard to imagine them playing the nurse, and putting the effort to learning her to just nerf her like that and not give a voice of concern of maybe this is too much nerfs.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,544
    edited December 2019

    So the power level of the Nurse is...

    But yea, I've been pretty much maining Nurse on my alt account (currently rank 6 on Xbox for this account) where my primary build is BBQ, Whispers, Shadowborn, Ruin (I would use either Corrupt Intervention or Infectious Fright if I had them instead), and I generally go into games with the Dark Cincture add-on to reduce the cooldown time. I find that sometimes the cooldown makes things tough, but in majority of situations it's not that big of a hindrance. Really what hurts me the most is when I play without add-ons and forget to wait the extra half second for a blink.

    I know people complained about the blink refresh sound effect on the PTB, and I like the current one, but maybe if there was some sort of visual indicator on the middle of the screen as well that would be a huge QOL boost, at least for me. Taking your eyes off the survivor for even a millisecond to see when the blink is ready can hurt a lot, especially in corn or fog. And considering that you can't really aim blinks using a traditional crosshair, putting some sort of icon in the middle of the screen won't give an advantage to aiming.

    But one thing I do like is that the cooldown punishes me for bad blinks. As frustrating as it is to play, in the past I never felt like my bad blinks mattered all that much. If I messed up I just fatigue and try again immediately. Now I have to be a bit more patient and tactical with it.

    It would be nice if a brown add-on provided a cooldown bonus. Like shift Dark Cincture's bonus down a notch to a brown add-on (get rid of one of the BP ones I don't see a point in them honestly), give Dark Cincture the same cooldown bonus as Fragile Wheeze, then give Fragile Wheeze an extra effect on top of the current cooldown bonus (maybe slightly increases chain blink window). This way you can more easily go into games with a cheapo add-on that can help with cooldown and make her more like her previous self.

  • immortalls96immortalls96 Member Posts: 2,756

    Agreed..the changes were the worst kind of nerf..reducing the power AND making it even harder to obtain said weakened power..the worst quality and design change you can ever do in a game like this...

  • UxoricideUxoricide Member Posts: 209

    Agreed, she needs a change that'll make her fun again... used to play base kit nurse and find her so boring to play now despite being able to 4k...

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 420

    I've pretty much retired as a nurse main. She's not fun and when I see survivors doing nothing but sprinting and unable to close the distance, then it's horrible balance. The icing on the cake: the devs don't care about nurse mains. They don't really care about high rank killer fun either.

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768

    If you mastered the mechanical parts of the nurse, it's really only a guessing game. The only difference between nurse and spirit is, that nurse gets punishes heavily for doing ANYTHING with her power. For some reason nobody really understands. Only the praised BHVR devs know why the base nurse nerf happened.

  • snozersnozer Member Posts: 580

    Survivors stopped complaining, end of discussion "pretty good job so far"

    Every discussion held about the nurse contained complaints about her add ons. It was rare to see complaints about base nurse.

    When the nerfs were announced, the majority of posts i saw agreed that the add ons needed to change but nurses base mechanics did not. ALL of this was ignored.

    As far as i can see, they listen to the streamers who are 99% survivor mains and one of them openly disconnects against specific killers and encourages it.

    There is no reason for the cool down, it is simply there to kill off the nurse and possibly give them something to make add-ons for because they lack imagination or creativity.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 2,862

    The cooldown hasn't really hurt her chase potential, I think it is pretty clear it was meant as a nerf to her overall map-wide pressure.

    I suppose the devs looked at the other Killers and decided that extremely good map pressure AND extremely good chase potential wasn't a good mix.

    Still doesn't explain why they couldn't have just increased fatigue OR just ditched fatigue altogether for the cooldown mechanic.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member, Trusted Posts: 6,937

    They explained the logic behind the fatigue/cooldown in the Q&A stream. They didn't want to increase fatigue because the way the camera moves during the fatigue animation can be a bit nauseating for the player if prolonged, but they also didn't want to remove fatigue altogether because they wanted the survivors to still have that small window to break LOS and juke the killer.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 2,862

    Then a cooldown would have been enough. Survivors don't need to break LoS. Run in a straight line, that's the best method.

  • edgarpoopedgarpoop Member Posts: 1,681

    I try not to take the stance of "unless you play Nurse at high ranks, you don't understand her," but it's really true in the context of the cooldown+reappearance change discussion. By my estimation, there are 10% of survivors at red ranks who simply aren't going to be downed by this version of the Nurse unless they mess up. They're running one direction until you stop charging, they change direction as soon as you release, and then they make distance in the 0.3 second window. They've essentially taken much of the guess-work in open terrain out of the survivor side and kept it on the Nurse side.

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768

    Yep. That's true sadly. She's very bad without specific addons.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 6,544

    From what I remember about how some Nurse mains explained it, your goal should be to land the first blink as close to the survivor as you can then use the second to make adjustments. While the tactic you mention does indeed work for a single blink, if you anticipate it as Nurse (or even just don't overshoot too much) you can use the second to still land a hit, and when you are very close the survivor has less time to react and less space to outplay you.

    You know maybe if her movement speed during fatigue was a tad higher these minor issues would disappear. The fact you are basically immobile during fatigue I feel makes a bigger difference than the cooldown, because if you could move faster there would be more chances for you to just immediately use a blink to land a hit without the need for a second. Like a delayed correction.

  • OmegaXIIOmegaXII Member Posts: 971

    Actually, i just realise that nurse is the only killer that cannot cancel her power when charged..

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