Because then survivor queues would be a bit longer than they currently are
Just gonna say it. If you didn't enjoy nurse in the first place how can you comment saying "omg some people like the new nurse" like what about the people who liked the original nurse?
As someone who hates playing nurse because of her fatigue and reliance of accurate blinking I respect the fact that people really enjoy her both before and after the nerf.
Having said that the nerf completely went against the views of the vast majority of nurse players. Her basekit was completely fine and her add ons were the core issue with her being so strong.
The nurse players before the nerf were robbed of the nurse as one of the few strong killers. Clunkifying a killer with the blink recharge was in my opinion the wrong change and for someone who doesn't play nurse it's clear how poorly received it was.
That's a stupid strategy. The difference between Billy and Nurse is that Billy is a 115 killer without his power who can brute force a chase. Nurse literally cannot. It is literally impossible for her to brute force a chase. Her movement speed is too low, it's lower than a survivor. She cannot catch a survivor or apply map pressure without her power. You HAVE to "spam" blinks with Nurse or else you lose. You want proof? Play No blink Nurse with no MS perks or addons and tell me how it feels. Suddenly You'll be itching at that secondary power button or begging the survivor stays within perfect LOS for bloodlust to kick in.
What part do YOU not understand here? Nurse isn't a 110 or 115 killer. She's a ######### 96 killer. She CANT refuse to use her power. Limiting it artificially has ruined the fun of playing her and the community and statistics have shown it. BHVR is holding out hope that people like you sit here and continue peddling the "she's still OP narrative" until Nurse mains and people against the nerf finally shut up so they can continue ignoring her, and it's not gonna happen. It's like I've been saying since this rework came out. It's a lazy mess of ######### that BHVR gave no thought to and it's ######### insulting that they think this community is stupid enough to accept it. And only people who are up their own ass with ignorance is gonna defend it.
If Nurse is such a good killer let me see you prove it. Stream yourself playing only addon-less Nurse and get to R1 without a single "entity displeased".
Seriously I need an answer here @Peanits @not_Queen Stop hiding and say something. Why do you refuse to address any real criticism of this rework. Is it bc you're afraid that you're gonna get called out on it or do you honestly think this lazy mess of a rework is the best the guys who brought us the new Freddy can come up with.
The important part is that you dont have to use the ability without cooldown in order to succeed. You can wait 3 seconds if you miss a double blink and try again. You lose half a metre in that time, so you're not unable to catch up. All it does, is affect the time efficiency of nurse. Which was too high, since every successful juke only gained you 3s until the next blink. Now survivors gain around 6s for a successful juke. Which is much more balanced for a killer as strong as nurse and a potential hit every 6s is still S-tier in DbD.
Btw i always play killers addonless, including nurse, so the change doesnt feel as impactful to me. And if i compare all the killers powerlevel, she is still at the very top.
If you want proof right now, look at every big killer streamer, they're still 4k'ing regularly with Nurse. Tru3, Zubat, OhTofu etc are all very successfull with her and still consider her the strongest.
I dont see any real argument as to why her basekit should be reverted from a balance standpoint. The only argument boils down to not having fun, which is subjective. Sucks if you cant enjoy her now, but thats not reason to balance around that.
Last I check True plays with addons and Zubat and Tofu are not Nurse players. Not saying they never play Nurse. I'm saying they're not Nurse players.
To say you only lose a few meters is quite the understatement. Maybe if you're chasing out in the open but not within or around structures.
Doesnt that just solidify the statement, that she is still strong enough, if nonnurse players can still succeed with her? I heard Marth was still 4k'ing regularly too and he is a Wraith/Nurse main.
You dont even lose a few metres. Literally 0.5 metres. So you're always in range for the next double blink and if you aren't, you probably messed up at the previous double blink and blinked in the wrong direction. You really dont lose significant distance from the cooldown. It will allow survivors to gain better mindgame situations and thus evade you more likely. But i find that balanced tbh.
OhTofu : He almost never plays Nurse and when I saw him playing Nurse on PTB, he did so against mediocre survivors on a laggy server.
Zubatlel : He just posted a video where he played Nurse with both range add-ons, however, the survivors from his match did horrible mistakes ( Bill running into him when he was in fatigue, Dwight getting hit and then grabbed instantly from a window ).
Tru3 : He almost never played Nurse after her nerf and when he did so, he either needed to use her best add-ons to barely win with 1 gen left or he was even defeated when he got a map like Hawkins.
Marth : I heard that he also consistently 4ks with Clown, which is arguably the worst killer in the game and he also was not happy with the nerfs to the base kit Nurse.
So none of their Nurses impressed me or made me think that she's still the best.
"The important part is that you dont have to use the ability without cooldown in order to succeed. You can wait 3 seconds if you miss a double blink and try again."
First of all, it's 3.5 seconds. Secondly, that's way too much time in a chase.
"All it does, is affect the time efficiency of nurse. Which was too high, since every successful juke only gained you 3s until the next blink. Now survivors gain around 6s for a successful juke. Which is much more balanced for a killer as strong as nurse and a potential hit every 6s is still S-tier in DbD."
So why, if this BS you're spouting is true, is she now statistically the 3rd worst killer in red ranks? She used to be the best, now she's 3rd worst. What does that say?
"Btw i always play killers addonless, including nurse, so the change doesnt feel as impactful to me. And if i compare all the killers powerlevel, she is still at the very top."
Statistics, actual Nurse mains, and even Ardetha at one point disagrees with you. So it's your opinion against a lot .
"If you want proof right now, look at every big killer streamer, they're still 4k'ing regularly with Nurse. Tru3, Zubat, OhTofu etc are all very successfull with her and still consider her the strongest."
Tru3 said basekit nerf was unnecessary. So there's ur strike 1. Zubat and Tofu are not Nurse mains so there is strike 2 and 3. If you don't main Nurse, you do not have as fleshed out an opinion on her as Nurse mains. End of story. I love Monto, for example. but I cannot agree with his sentiment that Nurse is still good. ANd i make that clear.
"I dont see any real argument as to why her basekit should be reverted from a balance standpoint. The only argument boils down to not having fun, which is subjective. Sucks if you cant enjoy her now, but thats not reason to balance around that."
Here's ur argument. It boils counterplay against Nurse down to "run in a straight line". It statistically made her the 3rd worst killer in the game. You've been skirting the fact that the stats show she's weak ever since you threw your hat in this ring and now you are asking for a balance argument behind reverting the nerf? Ur laughable.
Laughable and not genuine. Get out of this argument if you aren't gonna even try.
Those statistics are because of console players. She's the worst killer on console, and few people want to use her on console.
Marth 4ks regularly with all killers. It comes down to the survivors one faces.
Your number takes a side by side comparison of a single blink cycle and assume open space to move while in cooldown.
Taking multiple cycles into account in the 3.5 seconds it takes for both blinks to recover you could of charged and travel a full first blink of 20 meters. Walking at her base speed for 3.5s is 13.5 meters. A loss of 6.5 meters with the assumption you could walk unimpeded during that time.
Due to the penalty, Nurse players are forced to 1 blink around maps. Blinking twice has become to costly for map travel. I don't know about you but, blink fatigue wait, isn't my view of fun interactive gameplay.
The best impression is playing every killer yourself. Play every killer, try to master every toptier killer and then you know yourself, how strong they are. A lot of killerplayers who do that, will come to similar conclusions on who is toptier at high ranks. If you lack experience in other toptier killers, you may not know how strong Nurse is in comparison.
If all the main killer streamers cant convince you, that nurse is the strongest, then you dont listen to the best and most experienced killer players in this game. Have your opinion, but dont expect experienced players to agree.
You can walk people through the steps of how to blink attack someone and they still think blink spam mindless bullshit still exists. You can't help stupid sadly.
You spam the blink whenever its ready, just like the old tinkerer instasaw billys, and hope for a lucky hit. If Billy gets a 3s cooldown, it would mostly affect instasaw spamming. You know, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, chainsaw from 5m away, miss, .... Stupid unskilled gameplay.
As someone else has already explained you NEED to use blinks to even move as Nurse, so of course you're going to be constantly using your power. It still doesn't reward you for just mashing the button or holding it down till full charge everytime since you need to AIM, PREDICT, AND ANALYZE THE DISTANCE AND PATH OF THE SURVIVOR.
If you aren't doing those things then you will NEVER get a hit unless they walk into you on purpose. There is no such thing as blink spam because anyone who is just mindlessly using blinks aren't in any rank past 19.
Her pickrate on console has never been enough to skew her results. She was borderline nonexistent on console before the rework and her stats were good back then too.
Basically, you just disagree when other people say shes fine and you disregard the math. She always had low winrates statistically, because bad nurses drag her down. And the winrate is mixed with console, so you cant compare them.
Running in a straight line does not work. Endstille even made a video on that, you can use 2 doubleblinks to catch up to a survivor ~32m away.
You just cant take my genuine opinion or accept that she is still the strongest for most killermains.
If you hit the blink, you're still fine. Good Nurses who hit their blinks are less affected than bad Nurses who dont hit them as often. Which can become a problem if you're not as good as you thought you are.
"Basically, you just disagree when other people say shes fine and you disregard the math. She always had low winrates statistically, because bad nurses drag her down. And the winrate is mixed with console, so you cant compare them."
I'm talking about her red rank statistics. And her console pickrrate has never been significant enough to skew her killrate. She had an over 75% killrate before the rework. Console players were not statistically significant back then, why would they be now?
Tru3 thinks Ghost Face and Wraith are top tier and better than Billy. I heard him saying that Ghost Face is better than Nurse too. Definitely we should all listen to him.
OhTofu never mastered Nurse. He barely played her. His opinion about her is pretty irelevant.
I don't know about Marth tier list or if he even has one at least, but I know he disagreed with Nurse's base kit nerfs in PTB.
I don't know what Zubat thinks, but he also doesn't seem to play Nurse often from what I saw when I checked his streams. Even before her nerf he didn't play her all that much.
So even "the best streamers" can have flawed opinions. They are not Gods.
I agree, the nerf to her basekit was unecessary and weakens her power and her fun. But shes fun to play against now for survivors as they can juke her far more easily and tea bag while your fatiguing and waiting for a blink to come back. And thats the people who its important to have fun in this game. Killer's are here so the survivors can have fun, not for themselves to do so. *sarcasm*
Dont exaggerate the stats. She didnt have over 75%.
She dropped from 72,7% to 65,8% and her winrate is currently rising, as Peanits said. I'd say she was blatantly overpowered before and now she takes skill and is in the same winrate % as huntress, the other skilldependant killer. Both skilldependant killers performing equally good is what i would expect.
But they all say that Nurse is still the strongest. Every sane killermain will tell you that. You dont have to main a killer to evaluate the tierspot, especially if they're coming from flex killermains. Like i said, make your own opinion by playing every killer in the red ranks. Then you know how strong killers are in relation to nurse.
Ur just stuck in the pre-rework mindset dude. Seriously all ur saying is "It's Nurse so she's S++++++++++++++ tier by default and nothing could change that. She could not be able to down survivors at all and she'd still be S++++++++++++++++++ tier"
This is not true. I know a lot of killers mains who played Nurse and other killers in red ranks who don't consider Nurse the best killer anymore. So your point is again irrelevant.
See, you disagree for no reason again. Im not stuck in a mindset, maybe you are to proof that she is bad. I played her a good amount after the rework and im willing to change my opinion. But she still excels over Spirit, Huntress, Billy and Hag and thus is my #1 spot on the tierlist.
What if i say, that THEIR point is irrelevant because I say so? Its a useless circle, just take opinions as opinions, none of us knows the objective tierlist. Its time to make your own point. Play every killer at red ranks for a season and you'll know what your personal tierlist is.
Then why are you here saying out loud that she's still best and everyone should just gid gud on her and also bragging the streamers who either says that she's still the best despite never playing her or do decent with her, even if they would do decent with every killer.
Except that ISNT TRUE.
Statistically she is among the weakest killers in the game. Any caveat you can pull is not statistically significant enough to debunk that.
And yet you still refuse to accept that and use examples of people with flawed logic. lol the proof is in the pudding dude.
Because thats my opinion. Lets just agree to disagree
Statistics dont represent balance. I've played other games pretty intensively, like Dota 2. And my strongest heroes were the ones with low winrates. Shadowfiend, Invoker, Storm, Templar Assassin, Brewmaster. They werent weak because they had low winrates, tehy were just trickier to use and need more commitment to get rolling and i see the same thing in nurse/huntress.
Also 2016 killrate was over 60% and my god, were survivors op. Killers op because 60% killrate? No
"But they all say that Nurse is still the strongest. Every sane killermain will tell you that." then when met by proof from streamers and actual killer mains that she's not "Because thats my opinion. Lets just agree to disagree"...
32 meter headstart running straight at 4m/s. Not taking into account bloodlust for killers.
4.6 m/s killer will catch up in 50s with a lunge attack and 54s without.
4.4 m/s killer will catch up in 74s with a lunge attack and 81 without.
New Nurse 1 blink travels 33.86 meters in 8 seconds with cooldown.
New Nurse 2 blink travels 57.71 meters in 13.4 seconds with cooldown.
1 blink Nurse will take 14 blinks to catch up or 112 seconds and 474 meters to the survivors 480 meters.
2 blink Nurse will take 7 blinks to catch up or 94.5 seconds and 406 meters to the survivors 410 meters.
Charge 2s @2.89m/s = 5.78m
Blink 1.5s @13.3333 = 20m
Blink Window 1.5s @1.54 = 2.31m
Fatigue 2s @0.96 = 1.92m
Cool down 1s @ 3.85 = 3.85m
Total: 8s @4.23 = 33.86m
Charge 2s @2.89 = 5.78m
Blink window 1.5s @1.16 = 1.74m
Blink 0.9s @13.3333 = 12m
Blink window 1.5s @1.54 = 2.31m
Fatigue 2.5s @0.96 = 2.4m
Cool down 3.5s @3.85 = 13.475
Total 13.4s @4.3 = 57.705
1 blink Time/Survivor/Nurse
0 / 32 / 0
8 / 64 / 33.86
16 / 96 / 67.72
24 / 128 / 101.58
32 / 160 / 135.44
40 / 192 / 169.3
48 / 224 / 203.16
56 / 256 / 237.02
64 / 288 / 270.88
72 / 320 / 304.74
80 / 352 / 338.6
88 / 384 / 372.46
96 / 416 / 406.32
104 / 448 / 440.18
112 / 480 / 474.04 (lunge range)
2 blinks Time/Survivor/Nurse
13.5 / 86 / 58.14
27 / 140 / 116.27
40.5 / 194 / 174.4
54 / 248 / 232.5
67.5 / 302 / 290.7
81 / 356 / 348.8
94.5 / 410 / 406.9 (lunge range)
Good math, but why did Endstille catch up to the survivor in 2 double blinks instead of 7 double blinks? Something is not working out with your math, since we could see in other videos that Nurse is a tiny bit faster than survivors. 4.3m/s means slower than slow killer and we could see in videos that she is just as fast, if not faster. Financial Stability did a video with a fake last charge, but in there we could see that nurse would have arrived first if done properly with single blinks, so she is faster or on average, atleast just as fast as a 4.6 killer. And with double blinks she can only be faster. I appreciate your efforts, really. But theres an error in the equation