people wouldnt have to dodge lobbied as survivors if matchmaking wasnt broken
of course if i was rank 1 i wouldnt want to play with someone who is outside of my rank zone, thats how its supposed to work in the first place.
"I just think they should consider the minority"
You do know what the minority is...right? Like, the actual definition of "minority"? If the vast majority of players aren't having issues, why would they even consider the small group of people who are complaining about something? If they change it, they be upsetting the majority and catering to the minority, which is not something anyone should do in any business, especially video games. If it's not seen as a problem to the majority, then it won't get changed. That's how it works, sis.
I didn't say to revert the changes, i'm just saying that Legion's power is basically useless. With or without the change.
@Peanits Constructive ideas/feedback for legion without any negative connotations:
Here's a set of changes I've been asking for since the original nerfs:
Since Legion is all about the rush of stabbing multiple people, while in FF give him a stacking MS bonus for each survivor hit. This bonus would be lost at the end of FF.
The MS bonus would apply to vaulting pallets and windows as well. Something like a + 0.1 or + 0.2 bonus per survivor hit.
Yea, 5.4/6/8 looks like a lot, but when you consider the amount of time each survivor has to run while you're going after the first 1 or 2, it still gives them plenty of time to get away.
Second, no one wants to look at the ground for 4 seconds while they're fatigued, so I suggest a 1.3 second stun at the end. When you math speeds out for how far you can travel while fatigued vs how far survivors can get, a 1.3 second stun gives the exact same numbers as a 4 second slow down. The benefit of this is playing around windows and pallets, which is something legion is supposed to be good at anyway. To explain why it helps with those, here:
If I'm in FF and chasing a survivor, and they hop a window or pallet as ff wears off, I now have two options. Wait 4 seconds, then vault/break the pallet, or fatigue walk around it. With a 1.3 second stun, the survivors still have the exact same amount of time to gain the same ground in a straight line (straight line is relevant because it was the example you used last time this was talked about), but it allows legion to get back in the game quicker. Staring at the ground for 4 seconds through a blacked out screen isn't exactly "engaging gameplay" as you put it in regards to mending.
I think these two changes would go a long way towards making legion a realistic threat again, without having to deal with the exploits from before.
That is very much like being racist. Imagine telling a black dude his opinions don't matter because all the whites have already voiced their opinion.
20 seconds dosen't seem all that bad to me to be honest. And again, why weren't the addons just changed? Why was Legion given nothing to down survivors with in place of having very little slow down now (so little its actually inefficient to go try and chase another survivor with feral frenzy), or some kind of slow down that mattered besides deep wounds?
As far as the basic attack change goes, it's the same as the Pig. It's to create consistency between powers so it's easier to understand what a basic attack is and what works with it.
Okay then @Peanits riddle me this: who's asking for Killers like Pig and Legion's power to not function like a default hit? I haven't seen anyone asking for these Killers to be unable to apply debuffs on their ability hits. Legion maybe but certainly not Pig. And if anything Killers like Pig and Demogorgon are substantially stronger because of their ability to cheat the system with Save the Best for Last. Legion meanwhile is just worse off overall for pretty much no reason.
As for mending, previously it was too easy to get stuck in an endless loop of mending (with mending times of up to 20 seconds). This left people mending most of the time which isn't exactly thrilling gameplay. There's no interaction between the killer and survivor there.
This is particularly funny because now with how fast you Mend against Legion they can often come back to you during a Feral Frenzy after you've Mended to stab you again, dus actually creating an "endless loop of mending." People were asking for Mending to be more "thrilling gameplay" by making it require skill checks or making Deep Wounds more of a threat or literally anything to make it more dangerous and less of a mild annoyance. But now Deep Wounds is a complete joke and you guys have completely missed the objective with nerfing it to make it "less tedious." It's MORE tedious now than it was before because it's a complete non-threat and you feel like you're just doing busy work instead of actually surviving. Combined with Legion's increased speed and their ability to actually chain stab more-often-than-not a Legion would run past you, stab you once, and then run off. And now you're forced to mend with zero option for intelligent counter-play since you can't strategically keep in the Killer's terror radius to keep the debuff from ticking down, which presented an interesting risk-reward between keeping close to the Killer while injured or having Deep Wounds tick down.
I really wish that you guys would just admit when you've made a mistake instead of going around in circles trying to insist that "the character just requires a different playstyle" or something along those lines. That mentality is what took us 2 years to rework Freddy after he was universally agreed on by 90% of the community that he was the worst Killer in the game. And what happened after Freddy was reworked? He was fun. People enjoyed playing as him, and he offered a unique experience when played against. He's a little too strong yes but I'd rather have one more strong Killer than for every match at Red Ranks to be Spirit, Nurse, and Hillbilly. And even if Deep Wounds wasn't a complete meme Legion still wouldn't be top tier.
Where are you getting this 25% figure from and why are more feral hits a threat?
Hes not good in chase or tracking now with the new changes he isn't good at stalling or anti-heal What do you guys want Legion to be?
The fact you're bringing race into a conversation that is clearly about numbers is really funny. Actually read what I posted, and you'll see we're actually talking about the numbers of players.
A frenzy hit went from 16 seconds of stall down to 12. However his speed in frenzy was increased.
If the extra speed is enough to go from hitting 1 Survivor per frenzy to 2 Survivors per frenzy then that's a total stall increase of 16 to 24 per frenzy use for example, which is a buff.
25% is simply the threash-hold for it to be an actual buff. Since if 1/4 Frenzy hits now were gotten because of the buff to Legions speed, then that means his average stall per match is identical even if the stall per hit is lower.
If it's less additional hits than that then his overall stall went down since the additional hits would be insufficient to make up for it.
If it's more additional hits then his overall stall went up because he is getting disproportionately more hits and thus is applying DW on more occasions.
Purposely ignoring a small subset people and they are disadvantaged because of it is discrimination. Nurse and legion are black sheep.
No one is disadvantaged because of a rework that a small group of people don't like it. You can't please everyone. Please bring a legitimate point to this discussion. No one is talking about discrimination, it's a basis of opinion. If the devs see that the majority doesn't have a problem, then it won't get fixed. Again, skin color is irrelevant. Everyone has to face the same killer, how THE SURVIVOR IN QUESTION deals with it is what matters. Perks they have, their play style, the killer's playstyle, the map, the killer's perks, and individual experience between all players inside of the match in question is what determines whether or not someone can handle any supposed "disadvantage". If they can't that's their problem and their petulant whining won't do anything to solve the problem at hand.
I didn't say they should change things according to the minority, all I was saying is sometimes the minority do have good ideas that none of the majority are even thinking about and it's not a totally bad idea to atleast pay attention.
Devs rarely pay attention to the minority. They pay attention to numbers. The majority always outweighs the minority in any business, because it's better for the game's overall health. If they upset the larger subset of people, that's more backlash, more people quitting, more negative reviews, which all impact income, potential sponsorships, DLC agreements with other companies, etc. They HAVE to listen to the majority or else their numbers will take a serious dive. It's unfair, but it's a business.
Descrimination means acknowledging the difference between two things. It's not inherently a bad thing. So yes, they are discriminating between the opinions of the minority and the majority, because it makes sense to place more weight on the latter than the former.
Yet the last time, we gave them time, they did nothing to fix the changes they made to Base Kit Nurse.
Legion is about to get the Nurse treatment where they will ignore post about him, and then post some stats saying his fine and such, or say they re still doing research. I'm sorry but the devs have already lost my trust since the disasterous legion rework, and this legion nerf, along with the nurse nerf makes me trust them even less.
We don't. However, there are pages upon pages of suggestions for Legion.
I think you and I would agree that Legion is fundamentally flawed. Deep Wounds cannot be balanced for both sides.
Legion is the most prevalent issue and the one people have likely spent the most money on.
I do have great sympathy for the Devs, I cannot imagine dealing with people, myself included, day in and day out.
But what happens when a minority is ignored for too long? They leave. Then a new minority is formed, and once they are ignored, they leave too. It is possible to help a minority of players while keeping the majority in mind; the two are not mutually exclusive.
Okay then leave a paid DLC killer the way they are cause the minority that do play legion and don't want them to be trash but not cheap either will stay ignored. Fine by me it's not like i payed money for them. I used shards, thankfully, kinda glad i figured out it'd be the worst chapter they ever released, I just wish I could get the time i spent grinding them back.
We are talking strictly about a killer whose power is completely and utterly broken. There is no way for them to craft a power that checks all your little boxes without pissing someone off. You know that phrase "you can't please everyone"? It exists for a reason. THAT is the point.
Both of you are forgetting a little detail in that the majority can't participate unless the minority shows up at the party. In the case of the nurse, there is a shortage in the upper ranks so discrimination is bad here. Voices have been silenced with no empathy.
If you ignore or oppress the minority I consider that pretty bad personally. Just because you are a minority doesn't mean you don't deserve a say, rights, and such.
No one is saying that minority voices aren't important. If the minority voices were being ignored, it wouldn't be a majority vote, it would be a unanimous one. All anyone is saying is that it makes sense for the developers to listen to the opinions of the majority over those of the minority when trying to gauge the general community response to a change.
I'm sorry, but are you guys (DEV), can't tell the difference between adjusting, buff or nerf? Seriously?! All we can see as killers, if there is a viable killer, it got nerfed not long after some crying ppl in here.
Some ppl paid to play some killers. This legion nerfed, s/he already weak enough, and you guys not satisfied, you broke it again to 6 feet under. Why don't you just delete it instead?
And yes, you guys will ignore this again (like always), because i'm from killer side. Awesome. No wonder you guys have very bad reputation.
May I point you to These threads?
Cause that's some good feedback for how badly you guys gutted Legion, again. Having your favorite Killer gutted again isn't "engaging Game play" either. Yall made me quit. Just get rid of Deep Wound on Feral Frenzy and go from there! It would be so much easier to balance without nerfing the weakest Killer.... again.
Oh but they will wait out the "Knee-jerk" reactions for 2 years or till no one is saying anything anymore. They don't care. They will just wait till we collectively shut up.