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Please help with camping and tunneling...

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  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 517
    edited December 2019

    "Holding the game hostage" is defined as intentionally creating a scenario where one or more survivors can neither escape nor die, thus forcing them to either disconnect or wait for you to let them go. For example, you can accomplish this by trapping a survivor in a corner, bodyblocking them, and never hitting them. Thus, they have no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. And that's a reportable offense.

    Survivors can also take the game hostage, to some extent, by intentionally hiding in the outskirts of the map, never doing gens, and never getting into any chases. Thus, if the Killer can't find them, the killer has no choice but to disconnect if they want the match to end. Before the addition of the EGC, survivors could also take the game hostage by hiding after the exit gates were opened.

    When you camp somebody, they always have the option to die, and after 120 seconds, they will die no matter what. Therefore, you're not taking the game hostage for anyone.

    It sounds like you don't play killer much. If you "play nice" (i.e. Follow the survivors' arbitrary rules on what you are and aren't allowed to do), you're not going to do well. If every time you get a hook, you immediately leave the hook and run off to a distant corner of the map (Even if you see a survivor and/or scratch marks), you're throwing the match. Patrolling the hook, heading back to the hook after you receive an unhook notification, and downing the unhooked survivor if there isn't a better option available, are all legitimate strategies, which often prove necessary to win against competent survivors.

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,706

    Camping and tunnelling, assuming solo Q, are dealt with with a mixture of (in order of priority):

    1) Gen pressure

    2) Meta perks (BT, DS, etc.)

    3) Game-sense

    Yes, meta perks before game-sense, that's the sad truth of the balance right now.

    Gen pressure is self-explanatory, it's the best way to punish stubborn killers. If you lose gen pressure, then even successful daring rescue attempts will be in vain when you're all on death hook with 4 gens to go. Game-sense is necessary to know when to go for a rescue and when to do something else. If you know the killer is camping, try to lure them away. If they're not interested, then don't get stubborn and do something else productive with your time. At the end of the day, if a killer wants that person or one person out of the game, they very often can accomplish that and there's little a survivor can do, unless they can get and give second chances, that's why meta perks are must in these situations and game-sense is no substitute.

  • Wolfgamer0402Wolfgamer0402 Member Posts: 41

    I respect that too you know. But with campers well the second to last survivor should just keep struggling till that last unfortunate tries to rescue you to and get insta downed or just signal you that he got the hatch while you have a staring contest with the killer

  • AwakeyAwakey Member Posts: 3,145

    We aren't thinking, "I'm going to camp this guy to make him have a bad time!" No. We're thinking, "I'm going to camp because in this scenario it is the MOST EFFICIENT tactic."

    I'm not trying to ruin you experience, but that also doesn't mean I'll improve it.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084

    Holding the game hostage by BHVRs standards is what you described, yes, but BHVRs standards are extremely low. A survivor in a camping situation only has options that lead to them losing outside of someone else saving them or hook trading. The game for them is very much being held hostage. They have no control in that situation and the killer camping them is making sure they never get control back. Saying it's not holding the game hostage because DCing isn't your only option despite being in a situation where you lose no matter what is a very one sided belief.

    As for your "survival rules" scenario, surely you aren't ignorant enough to believe that's what survivors think. Most just want a fair game. I do play killer, and I don't camp outside of very few "required" scenarios and even in those scenarios I only proxy camp because they deserve a fair shot. Staying near a hook when a survivor is near it is not camping. Not chasing that survivor in order to protect your hook is.

    I tried camping in order to prove what another killer said(that he made it to rank 1 purely camping. He also said he did it literally for the salt when I asked why he did it), but I couldn't do it. It's too scummy of a tactic.

    I've had many when I asked why they camped(with no survivors around) and all of them say they like salty comments from them. So I disagree with your statement that people don't go into the game intending to ruin players' experiences.

    Also I could sit at someone's spawn point and shoot them in the head over and over the second they spawned because it was the most efficient thing to do to win, does that mean I wouldn't be griefing them because how they feel about it isn't in my thoughts? No. I'm still griefing if I do that. Same with camping.

  • I_Face_CampI_Face_Camp Member Posts: 244
    edited December 2019

    Bringing keys is griefing. Bringing toolboxes is griefing. Oh and insta heals are also griefing. Oh yea and killing a survivor is griefing.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084

    Literally none of those prevent a killer from playing the game. Instaheals also no longer exist.

    Most PVP games prevented this because it's problematic. The player on the recieving end can't play the game.

    A killer still has time to get another victim before all gens are done.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 517

    Keys prevent killers from playing the game. Instead of being able to chase survivors and get kills, the game just ends. And by your own logic, killing a survivor is griefing, because they don't get to play anymore.

    "Most PvP games prevent camping?" No, they don't. There are countless examples of PvP games where camping is a thing. Team Fortress 2, Overwatch, Call of Duty, Counter-Strike: Global Offensive, DotA 2, League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, World of Warcraft, Global Agenda, Half-Life: Deathmatch, Unreal Tournament, Quake... the list goes on and on. In any PvP game that allows you to just stay at a fixed position and wait for the enemy to come to you, camping is a thing in some form or another.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084

    How is camping a thing in League of Legends? You cannot enter the fountain, it is extremely risky to try to kill someone at spawn. Unless you're talking about jingling which is entirely different. I imagine the same goes for all of the other mobas you listed. All of those games I am sure have some sort of protection system in place upon respawning. You cannot prevent them from finishing the game. Random spawns, temp. Invincibility, etc.

    Keys do not prevent play. In order for 4 people to get out through the hatch, the game has to be pretty much over. In ALL situations, at least 3 generators have to be finished for more than one to get out through the hatch. Also you know what I am talking about, you're just making snide remarks. If a survivor dies on one hook because a killer camped them out, they had no control over their situation and were unable to play the game once caught. There's no situation where a killer cannot play the game unless it ends. Killers have control over how they can respond to situations throughout the game. Survivors do not have that luxury if a killer decides they don't want them to play after hooking them once, despite normal gameplay meaning to allow them 3 hooks.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 517

    I take it you haven't played League of Legends much. At the end of the game, if your team refuses to surrender, the opposing team will often camp outside of the fountain so you can't leave, and use long-ranged abilities to snipe you while you're in the fountain, or just dive you in the fountain because they can one-shot you before the fountain kills them.

    Random spawns and temporary invincibility don't help you if there's a chokepoint on the map that you have to pass through. If somebody camps there and you have to go through there, the only way you can play the game is to kill them before they kill you. Which is why camping is still extremely common in Call of Duty and CS:GO, to this day.

    Spawn rooms prevent the enemy team from entering in Team Fortress 2 and Overwatch, but the enemy team can always just camp outside of the spawn rooms and kill anyone who tries to leave.

    In order for 3 people to escape through the hatch, only one Survivor needs to die. If the killer has set up a 3-gen at that point, the game is far from over. But if the survivors have a key, the killer can do nothing to respond to it. Even if he finds the hatch first, it doesn't matter. Even if he uses Franklin's or kills the key-holder, the other survivors can just pick it back up.

    There are a lot of ways for the Killer to put a survivor out of commission and force them to wait for help, or wait to die. If you can't deal with that, then don't play Survivor.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084

    The game is already over at that point in League, and you still risk dying, the enemy can still kill you, and you still are risking a comeback by doing it. The only person able to auto attack away from the fountain is Caitlyn and even then she might need a RFC shot to perform that. Either way at that point the game is pretty much over and you'll only kill each person once unless the game was extremely short and respawn times are still short. It's very hard to call that camping and you've already won at that point. Camping in DBD happens extremely early in the game on the killer's first hook. If you like griefing you're apparently welcome to it as BHVR enforces it, but it's still a dick move and there's literally no point in doing it aside from pissing people off.

  • MonlythMonlyth Member Posts: 517

    Uh, there is a point in camping the hook: To interrupt the other survivors when they go for the save. That way you can get free hits, or get a grab. If the survivors are just sitting next to the hook, in plain view of the killer, waiting for the killer to leave, then the killer has no reason to leave the hook alone.

  • thereals3vinthereals3vin Member Posts: 24

    Yeah, it just really frustrates me. I play about 75/25 survivor/killer. I have been up to a 3 as survivor abd as low as a 9 on killer. I've never had to camp or tunnel to win. There are times where the guy who gets unhooked is the only guy I can see and catch, but if I ever have the option, I go for the unhooker. I have ran into jerk survivors too so I understand the anger there, so I don't play that way either. I understand the "legit strategy" that people keep saying, what I am saying is can BHVR please look at options to make this not a strategy worthwhile? And if that means some killer buffs to offset it, then so be it. I'd rather play a genuinely strong killer that 4k's me and have fun, than be mad I got targeted and 3 other teammates escaped.

  • DaGreenBoltDaGreenBolt Member Posts: 453
    edited December 2019

    Lol I remember when I took a break from the game at one point, and when I came back I was reset to rank 18. I played a game, and got absolutely destroyed, but I was able to get one kill.

    Found out that it was a SWF squad as 1 person was red ranks, 2 purple ranks, and 1 a rank 19 player. It almost made me want to take another break, I feel sorry for the poor souls who had to faced my ebony mori, and infinite tier 3 myers after that match.

    So they technically they exist, you just completely missed that if you have a rank 17-20 player in your SWF you are going to face low rank or new killers and completely crush them.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,084

    It's not camping if another survivor is in the vicinity and you know for a fact that they are. However this is a rare occurrence, most of the time people literally sit there without anyone around.

    That used to be a thing but now the killer is only allowed to be one rank color below the highest ranked survivor iirc. That can't happen anymore.

  • kengeekengee Member Posts: 11

    Body blocking *cough*

  • FrenziedRoachFrenziedRoach Member Posts: 2,599

    80 seconds to solo a gen

    120 seconds to die on first hook

    there are 4 survivors

    A killer who camps on first hook should be losing 3 gens....

    DO THE BLOODY GENS

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    There's no benefit to staying in a game like that as a survivor. You BP generation will be low and it will generally be a miserable experience.

    If the killer can still put pressure on the map they're score a lot BP.

    And the devs wonder why survivors d/c.

  • KuromiStarwindKuromiStarwind Member Posts: 325
    edited December 2019

    I don't understand what these people are doing or what game they're playing that they get tunneled and camped "every game" I legit do not believe you. On console? Yeah, maybe I believe you.

    I didn't play survivor for 6 months and went from brown to red ranks, and I think I got camped once or twice out of countless games, and that was because I was in the basement. I got tunneled a handful of times, sometimes I can't blame the killer, other times it made me angry because I played killer more and I could tell they were just garbage.

    Camping and especially tunneling have resulted in a lot of BS perks in the game, to be honest.

    That being said I generally let the killer catch me by doing something intentionally dense, both to not make them angry enough to camp or tunnel me, and to also give my teammates some points and pip progress. That's unless I know they will do either of those two things, in which case I'll run them for as long as I can. Maybe it's just because I have a bit of sympathy for killers because I play both sides and understand the reasoning for why people do things.

  • NeaMain7170NeaMain7170 Member Posts: 2

    Ok So will PS4 players ever get dedicated Servers or no? And will they do DC Penalties on PS4 or no? And finally will they ever punish killers who tunnel and hook camp, cuz it's honestly not how the game was meant to be played.

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    This is the elephant in the room and this is the point that half the people responding in this thread clearly are either unwilling to admit or simply clueless to the matter.

  • NeaMain7170NeaMain7170 Member Posts: 2

    Can someone please answer my question?

  • PrettyFaceKatePrettyFaceKate Member Posts: 1,706

    Based af. Respect.

    Agree. 1 dead with 2 gens to go is a very decent situation, as long as you can get another down fast. Any more unrepaired gens and it is gg.

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476
    edited December 2019

    Dunno PS4 servers, maybe yes because PC got them?

    PS4 d/c will only be punished if the game moves to dedicated servers.

    No they will never punish killers who camp/tunnel. The trajectory of this game has been killer focused for sometime now.

  • ASAPTurtleASAPTurtle Member Posts: 968

    Yeah because your camping. What do you want survivors to do during that 2 minute grace period of you sitting at a hook with a survivor on it? Cleanse a damn totem?

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    I love how you conveniently skip over some of the posts made by Desolate_Sands and went to the extremes examples that support 'poor killer, bad survivor'.

    Most of what you've described is a niche example or scenarios that require so many preconditions to be in place before they come to fruition. That it's ridiculous you even mention them. It's in no way what you would describe as an 'average game'.

    I love all these 'tons' of 'infinites' and 'god windows' you speak of because in my experience as killer, survivors will get a few good turns but it always breaks down. Then again, if your a bad killer i guess its important to hold onto 'infinites' that haven't been in the game for years now.

    It's like swf. If you listened to this forum you'd think that every second game was swf pro players making a killers life hell. The reality is that most swf is just mates wanting to have fun and usually results in a 4k. These 'pro' swf groups in my experience is something ridiculously small like maybe 1/30 games. Much like your 'infinite', but even then, its more accurate to call it a pseudo-infinite.

    Real infinites have been gone a long time now.

    The one shot killer mechanic really ramped up with leatherface and has been getting worse. It's the only hint you provide at any insight.

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    That's not an infinite because you can't do it infinity. That's why they have the entity blocker based off your description.

    Furthermore if you're in a chase were its happening 20+ times then you were not breaking a pallet or on a linear rail just following the survivor ad nauseam waiting for bloodlust to kick in not attempting to mind game at all.

    Meanwhile your camping tactics net you a 4k but then still manage to complain about pseudo-infinites.

    They're still not real infinites.

    My issue is highlighted by your PERFECTLY. A camping killer who nets a 4k can still complain about pseudo-infinites because they didn't manage to 4k a game.

    The devs have created an entire entitled killer class, with their killer bias.

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