I made a thread about it too asking if they were going to do ANYTHING about SWF or even have plans to do something. Silence on both of these questions.
At this point SWF has been a problem for so long it might as well be another test of a killer; their patience.
"This is because that statistic includes all platforms. Nurse on console is very very difficult to play, and you have a 95% chance to be playing a baby Nurse. On Xbox, I can literally count on 1 hand the number of Nurse's that are good enough to maximize her potential, and let me tell you that 99% of survivors do not stand a chance against them"
And I can count on one hand the number of console Nurses that exist. The number of console Nurses in general has always been statistically insignificant. Her killrate was one of the best before the rework, and even before the rework Nurse was a joke of a killer on console because of all the constraints on console that held her back (constraints that PCs do not have).
"Fact is she is still the best killer in the game on console, it's just harder to get that good with her. So all the baby Nurse's bring down the average. Devs have said that if you just look at PC her killrate is comparable to Freddy/Spirit even after the update."
First of all, no they have not said that. Peanits said her killrate is "climbing back up every day" but that does not mean it is comparable to Spirit or Freddy. For all we know, she could have gone from 65 to like 66 and that's what they consider progress or she could have a 90% killrate at this point (I doubt that any killer, even old vanilla hot off the release Nurse despite how broken she was). But the devs did not say her killrate is comparable to Freddy or Spirit.
Second of all, she is not even the best killer in the game on PC anymore, so how is she supposed to be the best on console when she was never really good on console? Spirit took over red ranks after the Nurse rework. Do you think the Spirit nerfs are gonna magically throw Nurse back to the #1 spot? Bc I promise you that Freddy is taking over red ranks if the Spirit nerfs hurt her as badly as some profess them to. Nurse statistically isn't even in the top 5 for killers anymore. Saying she is #1 is asinine.
This is what I have been saying ever since I started playing DBD. Nurse was a perfect example of a healthy killer because she was viable without addons. It was only when her addons came into play that she became a problematic killer. But that wasn't because she didn't need addons in the first place, that was bc her addons had disgustingly overpowered combinations.
Addons should not be mandatory for killers to function, especially when their parallel, items, are not mandatory for survivors to function. BHVR had something good with Nurse basekit and ran it into the ground bc they can't see past their blinders of "survivors are crying and saying they won't play the game anymore if killers get to be strong."
@copperslyI know @CrowFoxy and myself were very adamant against these changes dating back to their arrival on the PTB and If I'm not mistake any posts the two of us made were flat out ignored. The devs only started responding to posts when survivors started whining about instaheals taking a hit.
makes ya wonder who they really care more about. To any dev reading this post, Why did it take only 2 survivors bitching to finally get your guys' attention but pages upon pages of killers against a change isn't worthy of anything?
I'm surprised the devs don't understand the frustration Nurse mains are feeling rn. We got lied to and ignored every step of the way through this rework. At this point I feel like I'm torturing myself by playing Nurse but I'm still playing her. It feels like ######### for the devs to do something like this.
I don't give a ######### if Nurse is the worst killer in the game. I really don't. I've always maintained that if Nurse is fun, I don't care where she is on the tier list. But the fact of the matter is that she isn't fun. And the reason she is bad is also why she isn't fun. Her identity of being a power intensive killer got stripped from her and nothing was granted to her as any kind of compensation. Now she's a messy bedsheet of a killer.
@Weederick @thesuicidefox @Helevetin_nopee If any of you 3 played Nurse for longer than the time it takes to do your dailies with ur lvl 1 prestige 0 Nurse, you'd understand the frustration Nurse mains have. But you don't. That's okay, but stop acting like you know more than you do. Bc those of us that do know what we're talking about are insulted by the lack of an intellectual argument in favor of these changes.
I thought of her as the perfect killer in design as well. The diverse and unique use of her power in all parts of her gameplay, her strength that required a lot of skill, and her counterplay also requiring skill. It all felt like the model for the game to follow :(
I wish those in opposition to fixing new Nurse would at least you intelligent arguments :/ Too many times the "blink spam" and "free wins" arguments with no basis at all are flung in post after post gaining no substance each time.
Shouldn't the new rank reset help bring the base kit nurse back as new players won't run into experts as much anymore anyways?
I don't understand why they can't go for a nice middle ground. Freddy sucks and is worthless "ok, we will make him ridiculously strong"
"Legion is op". Boom, he's now worthless. You're welcome"
"Nurse is op". We got you boo!
"lvl 1 Nurse for dailies" LOL stop assuming things. You know what happens when you assume things right?
Dude I have an entire account dedicated to playing just Nurse and Huntress. I got to rank 5 JUST playing Nurse this season, and I honestly wasn't even trying for rank I was playing for BP on that account. I don't just play her once a month. I play her quite a lot. She is not weak on console, just really hard to play and requires a lot of practice and dedication to use properly. Again if you could play against any of the red rank Nurse mains you'd see she is definitely not at all weak. They are some of the deadliest killers at red ranks, consistently.
And on both my main and my alt she is level 50 with most perks. I don't prestige my killers unless I like their bloody skins, and for Nurse I play with cosmetics anyway so tell me why it's important she is prestiged?? Has NOTHING to do with skill or time played.
She is still the strongest killer in the game. Period. Just because her kill rate dipped doesn't mean she is bad. More than likely it means a lot of Nurse "mains" that played nothing but omega blink/multi-blink found out how bad they actually were without that super OP stuff. But players that were actually good Nurse players still dominate with her, even on console.
As the devs have said NUMEROUS times at this point... the stats are not everything. Just because her kill rate dropped doesn't mean she's suddenly a bad killer. Her potential to win is still insanely high, how you can ignore this is beyond me honestly. Just the sheer FACT she can teleport at will puts her far and above most killers in the game.
Really the entire fact you think she is weak on console proves how little you know about the situation. She is not weak. She is hard to play. Those players that dedicated the time to playing her are some of the best killers on the platform. The reason she's "a joke" on console is because majority of players don't put in that time to get good with her because she is so hard to play. Therefore, when you encounter a Nurse they are going to be really bad because they barely play her. Same with Huntress. This artificially drops her kill rate.
Get off your high horse please.
She is still garbage to play on pc too now.
I am a former console Nurse main, who got to rank one every season. I have since transitioned to PC and a I can tell you without a doubt that Nurse is unfairly difficult on console. The survivors have a ton of leeway because killer physically can’t move the camera fast enough to get hits. If anything, she should get buffs on console.
But back to the larger argument, this whole statistics thing is infuriating. The stats “counted” when they showed that Nurse had a high kill rate, but now that she is struggling, they don’t mean anything. I have never seen such blatant, BS cherry-picking.
The stats do not "not mean anything". They mean something, it's just you can't draw all conclusions from stats alone.
More than likely what's happened with her dip in kill rate is that many Nurse "mains" that played only omega blink/extra blink got stomped trying to play the new Nurse because they lost their crutches. It's not cherry picking. It's part of the bigger picture.
I don't disagree that Nurse is unfairly difficult to play on console. But at the same time she's not IMPOSSIBLE to play. With enough practice you can overcome most limitations. I play on 100 sensitivity with Shadowborn and I can turn fast enough to counter most jukes. I can do 180 blinks pretty consistently. It's not impossible, being a rank 1 console Nurse you should know this. But just because she is difficult it doesn't make her weak.
My point was that people only care about the stats when it’s beneficial to themselves. I didn’t say that console Nurse is weak, just that it is more effort than it is worth and puts you at a disadvantage.
Her kill rate will rise, and it is because people will only play her when they use other killers to farm her blood web for double recharge add-ons.
nobody will play her bare bones and that seems to be bhvr's goal. no killer is allowed to be viable without top tier add-ons.
They probably design killers at full strength and then sit down and ask, "now what can we strip from it and put into add-ons?"
This daily reminder, reminds me why nurse should never have been introduced to the game in the first place.
My question is why the devs allowed such a broken killer into the game, to begin with.
If you look at how the game was upon her release, the Nurse we had before the rework would have been underpowered as ######### compared to what survivors had.
That's just not true.
Nurse was OP at release and hard countered EVERYTHING survivors had, including REAL infinites. Not the soft pseudo thing people claim are infinites now.
You either weren't there at release, or you're just lying.
Oh.. so when she countered your real infinite, she was op. How about you used your real infinite to counter all other killers at that time?
Both of them are nerfed decades ago. So nurse didn't need another nerf to her base power with cooldown. Devs only did that simply because they ran out of idea of her add-ons. Just look at her add-ons, half of them are useless or straight nerf, not to mention the "best" ultra rare add-ons
Now you're just mischaracterising my argument and conflating your own arguments
She's broken, she's always been broken. She was introduced to counter REAL infinites and killers still complained so REAL infinites were removed.
She should never have been introduced because she broke the game. This magical line of yours where she was 'OK at one stage' doesn't exist.
And you pointing the finger at me while misconstruing my argument is the equivalent of trying to rile up the mob while yelling 'get him'.
Devs should have never allowed such a broken killer in the game to begin with.
Except that even Legacy Nurse mains who never used more than 2 blinks and almost never used range add-ons ( or any add-ons for that matter ) say that the base kit nerf was unnecessary and that Nurse isn't the strongest killer anymore. So stop with the argument that only the Nurses who relied on her broken add-ons complain about her nerfs, like, I literally never saw someone complaining that Omega Blink is gone.
Killers still complained because not everyone wanted to play nurse. And her power was fine, it was her add ons that where the problem. And the changed those...and then continued to beat her with the nerf bat for no good reason afterwards.
Nurse was nerfed the same time where those infinites gone, so what are you complaining about?
Are you saying that those infinites that did not have any counter were fine? You said that it was only killers that complained about the infinites, so you actually think that those loops are fine?
Are you sad that you cannot run nurse around loops like with other killers? If you do, you have my sympathy, and you deserve to be killed by every single nurse.
I think you misunderstand what statistics represent. A killrate for a killer is known as GLOBAL statistic. Global means that regardless of who the opponent is and regardless of skill level of the player, they achieve a certain killrate. In almost every video game, the hardest characters ALWAYS have the lower winrate because if a character is truly difficult to play, it means not everyone can play that character and since statistics measure a global average, those who can't play the killer bring down the average. Killrate do not measure effectiveness, they measure overall difficulty of a killer. you need micro statistics to measure effectiveness and in this game, you need statistics to measure "killer momentum" which is determined by how fast generator pop in comparison to how fast a killer gets hits on survivors/downs or how fast they hook. There are other factors to consider like toolboxs and keys escapes but that's jist of it.
Spirit is weird one, the thing is, spirit is harder to play than most killers, the problem is, she's also hard to face as survivor so even if spirit makes a lot of mistakes, odds are that survivor will make just as many mistakes against her, so it sort of cancels out in killers favor.
Nurse isn't bad. Nurse has recharge add-on that bring her back to old nurse. The omega blink isn't even gone, It's still mostly there, it just doesn't give extra charge speed to buff chain-blinks which was major problem with it in first iterations of it. The stuff they removed were add-on that remove counter-play of the chase for nurse which included charge time add-on, extra blinks, faster blink movement speed. are her add-ons in a good spot? well not exactly, a lot of them were pretty much useless but that can be said for almost every killer, so nothing changes there.
'Killers still complained because not everyone wanted to play nurse. '
My point exactly and I actually stated that in my prior post along with why nurse should never have come into the game.
Nerf the nurse again because turning a top tier killer into a bottom tier one is the only thing you can do at this stage to a killer who has fundamentally broken the game since release.
What I find so amusing is that my arguments have stood the test of time. I'm making the same arguments now I was making at nurse release. The anecdotal emotive arguments against my points don't offer anything.
Just because nurse had it 'better' before doesn't mean it should have been there to begin with.
'you cannot run nurse around loops like with other killers?'
Now we get to the heart of YOUR argument. A good nurse who always hits their mark. I have an analogy of survivor running in an open field in a straight line. Because that's what your arguing for a 'degree of challenge, but I still win'. And you're not evening talking about REAL infinites are you, your talking about pallet loopers too judging by your framing.
'Nurse was nerfed the same time where those infinites gone'
Once again, you either have no idea or your just lying.
No, infinites were up a number of months after nurse release. It was only after devs realised killers were still complaining that infinites were gone. So along with some nurse tweaks (I struggle to even call them nerfs until recently) you had infinites gone, bloodlust added, entity blocker added exhaustion added and now more recently with end game timer and hatch close ALL benefiting your precious nurse.
I'm sorry but you are either new to DBD or you don't remember the history of this game.
Wow... just wow... i never seen people justify nerfs just because she was broken.
So let's apply the same concept for survivors.
Survivors was fundamentally broken at the beginning, real infinites everywhere, incredible vault speed, fast gen times, broken flashlight, toolboxes.... ( the list goes on)
Devs should never introduce something that is fundamentally broken, right? So let's nerf them to the ground because this is the only thing you can do at this stage to survivors who has fundamentally broken since release.
Have a nice day :)
I admit that i'm not that old, and i never said i'm old player, but that doesn't change my point. Both of them were nerfed. She got changed recently too (i agree her add-ons need change, but not her base power)
And introducing the nurse doesn't justify the existence of infinites. Not every killers were nurse, and i don't think that you did not abuse the infinites when going against other killers.
And i don't really understand what you wrote in second paragraph.
"A good nurse that always hit the mark". Are you suggesting that the mark is you? And what's wrong with a nurse player that is good with her can hit the mark consistently? Are you saying that those people should not be rewarded for how skillful they are?
And that brings to my final question. Have you ever played nurse before? Or killer in general? If you think that nurse is still op and deserves further nerf, play her with 2 add-ons that nerf her lunge and blink distance, without perks in rank 1 for 10 games a row. Let's see how many 4k you can get.
Before you tried what i suggested, i have nothing to discuss with you
'Devs should never introduce something that is fundamentally broken, right? So let's nerf them to the ground because this is the only thing you can do at this stage to survivors who has fundamentally broken since release.'
rofl are you triggered?
That's basically what happened..... If you bothered to check my list of things added for killers overall. Also you still need survivors no matter how 'broken' they are, as you claim. I don't mind to just delete nurse and go back to working on these 'OP survivors' I see you keep mentioning.
We seem to be in agreement O_o
'And that brings to my final question. Have you ever played nurse before? Or killer in general? If you think that nurse is still op and deserves further nerf, play her with 2 add-ons that nerf her lunge and blink distance, without perks in rank 1 for 10 games a row. Let's see how many 4k you can get.'
I made rank 1 killer when there were REAL infinites in the game, there was no exhaustion so Sprint Burst would recycle during chases and could be used in conjuction with Balanced Landing. Back then too, Auto Haven had long walls and more pallets when there was no 'slow vault'.
I think this conversation is done.
Please explain in detail where the nurse exactly broke the game.
Survivors had to rely on skill instead because that is what it took to juke a nurse. Knowledge about the killer and how to handle it or why did some people lasted longer in a chase than others with her? Magic i suppose.
Prenerf basekit nurse was the best to play against, not breaking the game at all. If you played the game for such a long time, you should know that nurse had many deadspots which screwed her blinks completely. Ofc that is something that survivors would need to know to play against such a killer but we cant have that right?
Just remove everything resembling skill for survivors and be a better lab rat with memorized routes.
Despite the slight hyperbole type slant to your post you raise some good points.
'nurse had many deadspots which screwed her blinks completely.'
Yes, there were dead spots and survivors could use them and it persisted for sometime. But the devs actively worked to remove those dead spots and nurse mains figured they could come at those dead spots from different angles to remove them. There was never a 100% safe place EVER from nurse blink. So its a mute point resolved over time.
'Survivors had to rely on skill'
What your referring to here is 'mindgaming' the nurse, because if a nurse knew where you would move next, you'd take a hit. By that logic you could have left REAL infinites in the game because my strat for them as a killer was to mindgame the survivors. So just to make sure you're consistent in your argument, not just picking and choosing.
'Just remove everything resembling skill for survivors and be a better lab rat with memorized routes.'
Then you show your true hand. Another upset nurse player that final got their due.
You cant mindgame infinites.... thats why they were infinites ... bruh.
Watching good nurses still cleanly 4k with 3+ gens left makes laugh at threads like this. The only people who want the old nurse back are the people who got spoiled by her, since she literally damaged your ability to play other killers after a certain point lol