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We need to stop lying to ourselves. Nurse deserved every nerf she got.

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  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,969

    If it were game breaking, the devs wouldn't allow it. Sounds to me you just need to 'git gud.' She isn't hard to figure out. You can't play against her like you would Trapper or Bubba. But then, most people that complain are people that just don't want to learn.

    If you think she's game breaking, then I have every right to say SWF with comms is game breaking. That can LITERALLY IGNORE THE MAJORITY OF KILLERS THOUGHTS/PLANS/ACTIONS. It goes both ways.

    What gets me is the people saying that she needed a cool down on her power, forgetting that she already does. Her fatigue. Honestly, all this nerf to basekit did was slap a cool down. . . on her cool down. It's stupid. Her addon changes? Those were good. They were needed. I have no issue with that. But basekit? No.

  • copperslycoppersly Member Posts: 2,318

    Yes you could catch up quickly but it took skill to do. There is no amount of random blinking and charging of those blinks you can do that will get you free hits. You have to plan and execute them with thought. Now you're punished for using them in any other way except for trying to get a direct hit.

    When I was playing it felt like I was just a slightly better Demogorgon. The shred and her teleport are essentially the same now. You have to m1 walk around until a good oppurtunity shows itself then use your lunge power to get a hit. Nurse just has a much better version of it. This is not like old Nurse, where your power was in every aspect of your kit and you were rewarded for using it wisely. Now you're almost forced to save 1 blink just in case and wait until you have a perfect blink to attack oterhwise you waste your time trying to catch up way more than you used to. It just feels off, it feels jnaky, it feels unfun and unrewarding, all around bad.

  • LlamaArmourLlamaArmour Member Posts: 75

    I think the whole point of the changes were to control having such an over powered character, that's limitless in where she can go (except for a max range) by giving her an increased cool down. Which makes perfect sense, it was either that or kill her power by doing something silly like reducing the max range or maybe reducing her lunge after a teleport.

    Ultimately what it comes down to is the fact that her power by it's very design, is literally gamebreaking so it's very hard to balance and more importantly to keep balanced as the game progresses.

  • VetratheneVetrathene Member Posts: 1,425

    Technically she still breaks the game as she ignores pallets and walls. She just can't use it to any good effect now.

  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    They definitely shouldn't have needed her basekit. Look, it doesn't matter what you do to nurse because those God nurse players aren't that affected by this change... This change only further discourages new nurse players, because the nurses that played her at that high level haven't just lost muscle memory. They didn't need 4 blink nurse, they were downing survivors in two perfect blinks anyway. It does take away from her nap pressure, but I'd argue that wasn't ever really the big problem for survivors necessarily anyway, since BBQnC and stridor were already Meta perks that gave her map control info.


    So why not just nerf the add ons if you don't want every scrub to get good with her? Because again, the cool down isn't a strong deterrent for seasoned Nurses at all, she will still end chase's "too fast" in those hands... But newer players of nurse will be turned off because they won't have that mechanical refinement and just see how long it takes to catch up with survivor and determine they might as well have been spirit..

    IDK, in my opinion she was so underplayed as it was that a dramatic need wasn't necessary. 5 blink nurse needed to go, no question, but other than that everything else was just micromanagement and overthinking. K.I.S.S. remember this golden rule

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 3,144

    Not every Nurse player relied on broken add-ons. There were plenty of players who played her old school, which imo is not an overpowered version of Nurse.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,501

    Nothing you said was wrong except for seasoned nurses won’t care. I got to R1 with Nurse multiple times. I’ve dropped the character post rework because I straight up don’t have fun with her anymore. It’s not fun gluing my eyes to the bottom left of the screen the whole game waiting for my second period of waiting in the blink wait wait mantra to be done. It’s extremely unfun. Can I 4k? Absolutely, but it’s not fun to do it, so why bother?

  • Dr_doom_j2Dr_doom_j2 Member Posts: 869

    Yea, I was overtaking when I said that. It's definitely still frustrating to everyone, I just wanted to emphasize that newer players who were already daunted by her mechanical requirements have absolutely even less of a reason to attempt her now, which is sad because it means for all intents and purposes, the nurse is dead.

  • copperslycoppersly Member Posts: 2,318

    Ok I will just throw this one out there since it's really basic and it encapsulates this idea pretty well.

    A power bar that is drained from while charging blinks. It holds enough for almost infite 1 blinks, but double blinks draw from it and cap at like ~3 double blinks in a row max. This gives control over your power and rewards you for using it effeciently. Currently Nurse doesn't reward you for using your power wisely, it just doesn't punish you as hard for using it when you really should be (moving around, etc...)

    Another one: Give her 3~4 blinks in reserve that recharge slower so there is more upfront but less overtime. This still awards smart blinks but still lets you use them for everything like they were intended to be.

    Current Nurse changes do not reward smart blinks or using them effciently it just doesn't punish you as much for walking around like an m1 killer.

  • LlamaArmourLlamaArmour Member Posts: 75

    Your reward for using a blink correctly is hitting/gaining an advantageous position vs the survivor. What more do you want than that?

    Everything you're suggesting gives her silly mobility on top of her power that is already a trump card to literally every defence a survivor has.

    Like I said in my previous post; due to how much potential her power has, she needs to have downtime in between her blinks, otherwise she's just always all over you as long as you're in 2 blink range (which is pretty far).

    Nurse is a high risk, high reward killer. However, due to how large the reward is, she needs a large risk. There's no logical for her to have a crutch in the form of permanent 2 blinks in case she misses the first one.

  • RaptorrotasRaptorrotas Member Posts: 2,596

    Survivors:

    • 4-man squadettes are rare and therefore shouldnt be taken into account dor survivor nerfs.
    • ######### up nurse because good nurses are good with her.
    • A killer with many 4k is too good, regardless of survivor performance.
    • It breaks the game!!!! Although the devs made her so.
    • Fun


    An interesting thought or question i just had: "How xan nurse still be strong if "running in a straight line" hasnt been debunked as a myth yet."...

    I love those folls calling her game breaking instead of anti-looping, but then turn around and call DS anti-tunnel lul.

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    100% agree with OP.

    Quick history lesson:

    At release when you had REAL infinites not the pseudo-infinites you have now. The debate was over REAL infinites and their place in the game.

    As a killer I didn't mind them because a number of things tended to play out.

    If a solo survivor went to it, i left them. I'd let them finish gennies that end of the map and make sure to keep 3 gennies close together on the other side. I'd have no problems with kills and point generation.

    As infinites got popular, ALL the survivors would head to it. Creating a traffic jam and created easy points/kills as the survivors all got in each others way.

    Anyway killers still complained and hence THE NURSE WAS BORN. Completely countering EVERYTHING that allowed survivors survived, infinites included. I suspect that the devs did this to try and keep the complaining killers happy. Did it work? No, because killers had their preferred killer and so they continued to complain and so the devs removed infinites, but by this stage we had the nurse.

    The nurse broke the game and now everyone understands why.

    Nurse should never have been introduced and infinites should have been removed sooner. That's the long story short.

  • SluzzySluzzy Member Posts: 2,973

    Your reward for finally and successfully landing a hit is negated when the survivor presses E. The entire chase resets, you have entered your fatigue again with a super long and annoying 6 sec recharge. In the meantime, 3 survivors are humping a gen and the survivor that should have been down is half way across the map. Because they gained so much distance, they jump in a locker out of your sight and magically heal because of Inner Strength. After the nurse finally hits the survivor twice again, the nurse has lost because 3 gens are popping now and nobody hooked. With how optimal survivors can potentially play, nurse needs zero downtime.

  • zaquintarzaquintar Member Posts: 54

    Still waiting for nurse to be reverted to what it was. Hopefully some day they'll see the error in their ways

  • FearedbytheGodsFearedbytheGods Member Posts: 476

    What I love about this story is that it requires SO MANY preconditions to be in place for it to bear fruition.

    I like my story better:

    Nurse has survivor, survivor hits 'E' nothing happens so gets hooked. Nurse has BBQ and sees 2nd survivor coming to unhook and blinks to them and immediately gets a hit. A small chase ensures but is over relatively quickly and the 2nd survivor is hooked. The 3rd survivor who had been running around the entire time trying to find the hex:ruin is now in a chase with the nurse. With 5 gennies still up the 4th survivor leaves his gennie to unhook the first survivor. The first survivor whose now in struggle state, seeing the direction of the game gives up and dies. The second survivor seeing the first survivor give up decides to suicide on hook. The third survivor who is downed now, has no points so leaves the game accepting their time out because there is no point to stay.

    Hatch spawns next to nurse who promptly closes it and the 2 doors are adjacent to each other so with the high mobility nurse whose hitting all their blinks its inevitable the 4th survivor will die. The 4th survivor, whose actually smart, realises this, so decides to farm totems and get 3k+ points before end game finishes listening to the nurse blink between the 2 adjacent doors the entire time.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246

    😂

    Does she remove the ability of survivors to move? No.

    Just a completely skill dependant matchup.

  • TheCrookedManTheCrookedMan Member Posts: 282

    What if I told you....that I also think SWF with Comms is just as broken as nurse...because it is...


    Didn't see that one coming did you?


    However the difference is the devs plan on changing the rules of the game entirely, bring solo survivor's up to the level of SWF and then bring killers up to that level as well.

    What gets ME is that you attempted to appeal to hypocrisy by assuming I'm okay with SWF as it is now. Not only are you wrong, you clearly show that your intentions are to argue in bad faith.

  • TheCrookedManTheCrookedMan Member Posts: 282

    Nice pallet you got there. Mind if I...ignore it....


    Nice loop. Mind if I........ignore it.


    Oh you're on the top floor of the asylum? Don't mind me I'm just gonna zip up there and hit you.



    Survivors don't need to have their ability to move taken away to be caught.

  • EndstilleEndstille Member Posts: 2,246
    edited December 2019

    You completely ignore that the game is not played by the killer alone. Yes she can blink through walls and pallets but is hindered via all LoS blockers. It took skill as survivor to juke a nurse as you can use the whole map, not predefined routes which you have to run in order to waste as much time as possible. Strange that some people took chases with a nurse, juked her and others go down in like 10sec.

    This now was reduced to running in straight lines away from her. Such skill much wow. Go to any LoS blocker, adjust the angle and keep running, wow (applies to basekit nurse ofc).

  • Aven_FallenAven_Fallen Member Posts: 12,223

    Yep, the Basekit Nerf was justified was well. I faced Nurses without any Perks (or only BBQ as only Perk), because they simply dont need it. Now this is rare, but had a Nurse with only BBQ two days ago. He got a 4K (even tho with 1 DC, but I doubt that this would have changed it).

    I dont think that the game would have been able to be balanced with old Nurse.

    On a side note, I noticed that she feels better now. Said it earlier, but I felt that the Servers did hurt her more than the Basekit Nerf. Maybe it was this:

    • Fixed an issue that caused The Nurse to snap at the beginning and ending of her blink. Fixing this issue required us to rework how the snapping of characters interacts with the movement systems, and could cause additional side effects.

    But she feels more "natural"(? Dont know if this is the correct word for it, me fail English) now.

  • se05239se05239 Member Posts: 3,919

    Her add-ons definitely needed a change but her basekit didn't. Its just another perfect example of Behavior going further than necessary with nerfing. They're just doing their thing anyway. Our voice doesn't matter.

  • HeroiqHeroiq Member Posts: 1,134

    as someone who main'd nurse before. i can totally say that the nerf isn't bad at all.

    she's still the same old nurse. the only difference is that the people who used to rely on add-ons (omegablink, 5 blinks, etc.) to win matches are having a hard time playing nurse right now.

    the only real nerf she got was dedicated servers. now due to my location and ping. (from Iraq, 80-120 ping Avg.) playing nurse became a huge pain in the butt. if you can remember. the dedicated servers came a few weeks before the nurse nerfs. so i had enough time to test the old nurse on dedicated servers. and even with omegablink. i couldn't 4k. because of how buggy it felt at 100+ ping. keep in mind that I've never. ever. lost while using omegablink.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,969

    We agree on something. Congrats, I guess? My point was a seemingly double standard. Devs think SWF is fine. If that's the case, then Nurse should be fine as well. Both 'break the game,' by your definition. So if they're okay with it, is it breaking the game?

    What does them bringing solos up to SWF level have to do with anything, though? That's a topic for another time, though I do wish they would give some kind of roadmap on that. If you're trying to point out that they're 'working on game breaking mechanics,' I still disagree that Nurse, basekit, is game breaking.

    First, her skill cap alone was a hindrance. Take away omega blink, and how many 'good' Nurse players were there compared to the rest? She could do well with no addons, but it took extra work, which is why omega blink was so popular. And so easy. Then her fatigue. People seem to forget that's her drawback, and failed to use it. You can get a lot done in the two seconds she can't see you. Slapping yet another cool down on top of her cool down in the way they did comes off as both sloppy and lazy to me.

    Like most killers, they take a bit of time to learn. Nurse was no different. What the devs should have done was hold off on the base kit changes. Throw in the new addons, and wait. Watch the data. See what changes, before implementing any change to her base kit. Give a chance for the changes to settle, and see where Nurse falls into line. As it stands, in the month and a half since the changes, I've had two matches against a Nurse. Two. And it was a stomp. I can only imagine how it must have felt being the Nurse.

    I'm not saying she wasn't tricky to go against. Against a good Nurse, you couldn't use the usual killer tactics. But that's the whole learning process. I used to have fun with it (minus omega blink, or some of those distance addons), but I can see where some of the problems came from. That doesn't mean I thought her base kit needed the hit.

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768
    edited December 2019

    Like no? The nurse addons were broken. The old base nurse were 100% fine. No nerfs needed.

    EDIT: Everyone that says she breaks the game is a meghead, in sorry. She got massive counterplay, but is not pallet loopable. And?

  • TheCrookedManTheCrookedMan Member Posts: 282

    I just read your entire post which ignores the first sentence of my first post. I don't care how much skill it takes. I don't care how many people know how to do it. That doesn't come into account of game design. The devs don't care and shouldn't care either how much practice it takes. You don't get to break the game just because you're skillful. Something requiring skill is not a good excuse to break the game. There is 0 excuse to break the game. YOU brought up SWF which I TOLD YOU THE DEVS ARE WORKING ON. Which THEY HAVE SAID THEY ARE WORKING ON. There is no double standard. They took the more complicated and difficult route of fixing survivor with friends. I don't even know what the point of bringing it up is. If you want to argue the quality of her changes that's fine, but to say her base kit isn't broken is asanine.

    Believing that being to ignore all defense survivors have is kinds yikes bro.

  • ElegantElegant Member Posts: 443

    She absolutely deserved every nerf she got. But, they should have just reworked her instead. I can see why people don't want to play her. But, the old nurse was inexcusably overpowered and should never be allowed to go anywhere near her old self

  • LlamaArmourLlamaArmour Member Posts: 75

    Lmaooo you pretty much summarised exactly what I was about to say in response. Thank you, I appreciate it.

    You can't use hypothetical scenarios to prove your point here (it can supplement it though) however, even if we do, Feared's scenario is waaaay more likely than yours. The only part of yours that I can see happening on a regular basis was the dead hard, but even then old nurse was right on top of you as soon as she caught her breath so it was pretty irrelevant. There was literally no way you could run outside of her max 2 blink range while she was in fatigue from missing a swing.

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