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So, about gens...

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  • NobsydeNobsyde Member Posts: 1,281

    @theArashi

    Opting out won't ever happen as most killers will just get fed up with premades and instead have casual games.

    ..so?

  • theArashitheArashi Member Posts: 995
  • NobsydeNobsyde Member Posts: 1,281

    Yes, there would be the point to not play against swf.

  • theArashitheArashi Member Posts: 995

    Game main appeal is playing with friends. If you can't do it then game is dead.

    That would never happen and devs already said that multiple times.

  • sir_pookychansir_pookychan Member Posts: 16

    I think we should just remove the toolbox ability to affect gen repair speed. Have them only for sabotage except with am item like a BNP which instead of its current ability unlocks the ability to increase repair speed with toolboxes.

  • DeadeyeDeadeye Member Posts: 3,545
    edited December 2019

    @theArashi the video is probably not the best example. The killer took 90 seconds to finish the first chase, didn't protect the second gen he could DEFINITELY hear and did not even return to it after the down. And you don't see if the killer was camping (as you can see he was tunneling, eating the DS almost on purpose) which would support gen rush as well.

    @Troman I think gen rush, except for a whole team using speed buffs with perks and items, is not really plannable. The main problem on early gens popping is, that you can't control the whole map. Survivors can spawn directly beneath gens. Survivors can choose to not tap the first gen they see and wait until you got past it. So the killer has to pass by within 80 seconds later again, to protect that gen, including searching the whole map and most likely getting into a chase somewhere. And if you combine the cases, you might have all survivors work on gens before the first one gets found. It is totally random, of course. But it is always possible that you have a bad chase and 3 gens are finished after the first down, if the survivor chased does not run into gens being worked on. Or at least, finish the first chase in time, find another one and finish that chase as well. Still possible that at least two or even two and a half gens are done before your second hook. As I said, not plannable, but always possible.

    I would also like to test a version where team play is supported, not slowed down, or solo play is slowed down and team play stays the same. @Huntar @Inacurate I like the belt idea also. I once had the idea that the killer should be able to manipulate certain gens, so the survivors need to find special parts to repair, before they can go on with that gen. At first that seemed to go too much direction "Friday the 13th" game where you need to find stuff spread over the map but could be combined with that belt idea, so the gen is protected for some time, until the belt drops.

    @ThatMetal1 the 5% base regression on kicks would be nice, that also is kind of counter to the salty "I tap the gen dude! Wanna kick it again dude? We can run this forever dude!"

    @Johnny_XMan I'd say as soon as the ultra altruistic survivors stop camping and swarming the hooks for the insta unhooks. If ever anyone talked about hook rushing, it can just be about survivor initiated snowball scenarios.

    @Piwatte Sounds like the whole game is no fun to you, no matter how gens are supposed to be finished. If you say you have fun in chases and help others, just go for the killer and chase, letting the others do the totem/gen stuff, right?

    @theArashi "If you can't do SWF the game is dead" Pretty quit death sentence here. SWF came with patch 1.0.3. But I also would never +1 on removing this, and it will not happen

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,257

    They'd have to rework nearly all the addons, and toolboxes would become basically useless.

  • ArrowTheGreat11ArrowTheGreat11 Member Posts: 306

    If you want to reduce gen speed then all killers would have to be nerfed. Killer mains are always thinking in SWF but never realize how hard it is for solo players. I can’t tell you how many games I’ve been in where 5 gens were left despite no ruin because everyone wants to urban evasion to the corner of the map when they hear a heartbeat.....in red ranks....................

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,257

    Uhh I'm a survivor main. I suggested this to try to balance things out for lower tier killers. The example you gave is an outlier. You can't balance around rank 1 everyone playing perfectly. Just as you can't balance around everyone being potatoes. You have to find aa happy a median as possible.

  • NobsydeNobsyde Member Posts: 1,281

    if no players play killer because of swf the game would die either way, though.

    In any case it's a slippery slope, you don't know how many killers would opt-out, I don't know the current killer retention rate.

    What I can observe is that my games are instantaneous as killer, while as survivor I have to wait 5-10 minutes. Rank 1 on both. This tells me something on the current state of the game.

  • KuromiStarwindKuromiStarwind Member Posts: 325

    Exactly, they should be able to find a middle ground, though at the end of the day most games balance around the best players, and the potatoes? Well it doesn't really matter, since top tier balance won't affect them much. You can't not balance the game because "That wouldn't be fair to bad players and rank 15s!" Any more than you can say "That wouldn't be fair to solo players"

    It's kind of like someone who is too strong making excuses for why you can't nerf them, simply because, while it would be totally justified, it's "not fair" to x group.

  • MeatBycicleMeatBycicle Member Posts: 754

    Also the fact that you call both of those perks "Crutches" leads me to believe that you can't run a killer, and you are one of those survivors that won't touch a gen until Ruin is destroyed. Nice try though.

  • ArrowTheGreat11ArrowTheGreat11 Member Posts: 306

    Just buff lower tier killers rather than affecting gen speed, cause all killers are going to do is play with A tier killers and 4K every game because no one can do generators since they take longer

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,257

    I think you're overestimating the damage being 20% slower on a gen would do. If they decide to not bother with looking for a toolbox it would take 16 seconds more. The idea is to slow down the early game by just a bit.

    As a side note. I've suggested multiple buffs for lower tier killers. I'd argue for those buffs and this.

  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    I run killer just fine, never rank one by any stretch but not terrible. And I still get 4ks. They are absolutely crutches, just as much as self care. The fact that you cant or won't see that is not really my problem

  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    I play both pretty regularly, but thanks for playing

  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    I'm sorry the perk that automatically gives you extra points for doing what you're supposed to try to do and automatically let's you see survivors nearly anywhere on the map isn't a crutch? Run rancor, at least then there is a balance if you have to run a "I can see you" perk

  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    Yes but lockers aren't in every square inch of the map, and now you have iron maiden since legion to counter that anyway. My point isn't that there is no counterplay, but there isn't much and there is no downside to that perk. You already are getting a leg up with the hook, now you get extra points and free information unless people have been able to find a locker

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited December 2019

    I thought of reducing repair times further for multiple people on a gen while making single generator repair speed slightly faster to compensate. Several people are on one gen during the game at many points in the game, and I actually feel gens fly the fastest when that's the case even as killer. I don't usually see 3 gens pop at the same time(I have before, but usually I'll go around keeping pressure on multiple gens where that doesn't happen), but when there's that one team who all pile up on one gen I have to look for that 1/8 gen that they're working on and if I don't find it in time it pops super quick even without Prove Thyself. Or if I'm chasing a survivor, they can get that one gen done super quick because I'm not there to pressure them.

    Slowing repair speed for single gens and having gen speeds faster with multiple people is also an option, but that brings the case where you have to find one generator out of 8 that's likely to pop before you get anyone. Then you get someone in a chase and the other 3 are on a new gen. Discordance wouldn't just be meta, it'd be necessary.

  • BoneFishBoneFish Member Posts: 12

    Why the hell should a perk have a downside? What's the downside of running Decisive or any of the other myriad of survivor perks?

    If you 4k consistently without running Ruin then you're playing against potatoes, even if Ruin lasts 30 seconds, it's a big deal; and with BBQ, you get some free information that's far away from your hook, big whoop, it's helpful but the fact that you think it's a crutch is beyond ridiculous.

    I've been rank 1 killer every season I've played and I am saying objectively that you don't know what you're talking about. Against your rank I could probably 4K without any perks, does that mean all perks are crutches now?

    Stop using anecdotal examples, it's not a good look.

  • thrawn3054thrawn3054 Member Posts: 5,257
  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    Fine, but for all people's complaint about balance, there is none on bbq

  • brocktreebrocktree Member Posts: 37

    Decisive strike only works when you have been hooked, and if you have been picked up again shortly after that unhook has happened. You can't use it at all unless you have taken a step down. Same thing with a number of good survivor perks including self care even.

  • MeatBycicleMeatBycicle Member Posts: 754

    I meant as in when playing survivor you don't know how to loop a killer. Also not reaching red ranks does really make your argument weak. You are playing against much less skilled people, obviously getting 4k's is incredibly easy purple and below.

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