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Ruin is NOT a requirement

yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516
edited December 2019 in General Discussions

As the title says, it really isn't needed for red ranks. Sure you'll have more time and in turn makes games more bearable but you can do fine without it.

Let's take both otz and tru3 into this. They both did a viability test. Tru3 had ruin and he went for specifically pipping or double pipping. That's precisely what he achieved but in a good portion of those games ruin went out relatively quickly.

In otz video he didn't use ruin and used a poor early game killer. He didn't depip once out of his 16 games and only used browns and yellows for addons. He didn't go for the 4k but he went for his personal idea of a win. In both sides neither one depipped once and they both felt like they "won" so this is why i feel ruin is not needed for highranks.

Edit: by not needed i mean not needed to stay in red ranks

Post edited by yandere777 on
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Comments

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 2,852

    Game is perfectly balanced.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    Nothing will get you more gatekeeper than ruin.  Ruin protects your gens at the most critical point of the game, at the start when all 4 survivors are alive, healthy, and potentially doing gens. That alone makes it worth using.

    Without it, people spawn directly on top of your generators and can mindlessly hold M1 right from the start of the game.

    The survivors I see complaining about ruin are typically running the full 4 crutch perk build anyways.

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    He blackpipped but didn't depip. He still won in his sense of view so his blackpipping doesn't matter as much. The bag addons were brown at worse so thats not too much of a rebuttal. If he can bring trapper to rank one, who a bunch of players consider bad, I'm pretty sure any main can do the same

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    And ruin may be helpful to get there but you don't need to pip every game to stay in rank one. You just need to blackpip

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    I'm not saying it's not worth it, it's more of a "not needed." If you can consistently pip or even black pip while in rank one you will stay in red ranks like that.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 479

    Otz responded to Tru3's guessing that he slugged heavily saying he did not, and knew he didn't because in most games he ran Pop or Thrilling Tremors which need you to specifically not slug to work.

    As is, I know that with matchmaking being borked, if ruin was required I shouldn't struggle to stay in green ranks like I want to. As is I keep beating purples/reds without it, and keep getting higher in rank than I want to (because I'd rather have fun than need to tryhard every game). Favorite slowdown perk is probably Thrilling Tremors, honestly.

  • EchorionEchorion Member Posts: 1,227

    otz and tru3 could probably bloody 4k with no perks or addons at all if they really tried, that's not exactly a fair comparison by any means.

    Ruin can be very strong, but no of course it is not needed. No perks are "needed". Some are just stronger than most or make things easier; and it's generally accepted that if you play without ruin it forces you to be more active and will probably make you a better killer player.

    These are all things that the people you are using as an example have said too.

  • HeartboundHeartbound Member Posts: 129

    If you're going for emblems its free real estate.

  • Apple2oApple2o Member Posts: 624

    You can win games running no perks at red ranks if you are good enough, but the games will probably involve copious amounts slugging, tunneling, and camping depending on what killer you are playing.

    It buys me a good minute or two usually, and that's all you need from it. It also prevents survivors from stacking on gens with toolboxes and prove thyself, stopping those super early gen pops before you have even found a survivor.

    Overall, I don't see any reason to ever take it off. There's nothing that is going to give you more gen regression value for that same slot, except maybe pop but I always use both.

  • Yo these sweats who play games all day for a living can do this or that so that means it should be ez for everyone. Makes sense.

    Also didn’t Otz like... not pip in most of his games?

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    Assuming the killer made it to rank one they should be good. And my point is more of its not needed to stay in red ranks. Even though otz didnt pip he never depipped and he even said he didn't go for a pip

  • Well_Placed_HexTotemWell_Placed_HexTotem Member Posts: 818
    edited December 2019

    Going for the Oni adept in red ranks, i routinely had 2-3 gens pop before I even got one down because of the strong looping survivors have available and a lack of Ruin. Pop wouldn’t have helped there. In many cases a gen or two across the map would pop before I could even make it over there while checking gens along the way.

    If you don’t run Ruin with a weak M1 killer then you’re leaving yourself at the mercy of survivors. If they want to gen rush then you’re going to lose. Even Otz didn’t pip and he plays the game for a living. Ruin can buy you the time needed to get a down before gens start popping and that makes a gargantuan difference.

  • ASpazNamedSteveASpazNamedSteve Member Posts: 1,501

    u rite

    No perk, addon, killer or offering is needed to do fine at rank 1.

  • LirulinielLiruliniel Member Posts: 2,163

    Pretty sure he used the weakest addons for a Bag and Setting Speed majority of those matches. He never depiped and rarely didnt pip. Trapper slugs quite a bit because of the playstyle. It's amplified even more so without ruin and it forces survivors to get off gens.

    Also Tru3 used stronger addons amd slugged here and there as well.

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    Its not about pips and getting to rank one, its really about staying there. If you only get black pips at rank one you aren't depipping or deranking. Of course you'll get goofed up in red ranks going for adept so thats just asking for it.

    Not running ruin on a weak m1 killer will only suck if you choose to just m1. Almost every killer has a way to not just chase for 3 loops straight. The only 3 i can think of are doctor, pig and bubba

  • BeanieBoyBobBeanieBoyBob Member Posts: 351

    As both Otz and Tru3 have said individually many times, the definition of a "win" depends on how you see it.


    Otz sees a 4K as a solid victory, whereas Tru3 sees Merciless as a full victory. Ruin is not needed to achieve a 4K, but it does help to achieve a better grade in the post-game in how it does force Survivors to spend time out to find the totem or to power through it (both take up precious seconds that Survivors don't really have).


    It just depends on how you see a victory in all honesty.

  • dont_ask_me_againdont_ask_me_again Member Posts: 466
    edited December 2019

    I feel like I gotta post this though if ruin’s ever talked about: this is what games look like when you don’t bring ruin:

    Those survivor’s also made mistakes. I did too at the start, at 2:55 I had the M2 bug though where I did click to charge the second blink but nothing.

  • StarMoralStarMoral Member Posts: 816

    Ruin is one of the better gen speed perks because it affects all gens from the start of the match to the end as long as the hex stays up.

    Personally, I like running Ruin, but not without another slowdown perk like Pop or Thrilling for WHEN it gets cleansed.

    Yes Ruin is not NEEDED, but it's one of the better perks to use for early game protection. Sucks that Hex's are kinda if-y right now since hiding locations either suck and/or ignore the survivor LoS requirement.

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    That vid was a huge mess to watch. You chose to not blink so you spent a good minute walking as nurse, you got your first hit but lost them. Luckily found a sneaky claudette and hit them but lost them too. It took you a little over 2 minutes for your first down, which you slugged so you got no use from bbq. And you honestly got them due to them goofing up badly in chases. But you kinda threw the game at the start with how little pressure you inflicted. Not trying to belittle you in the slightest but that was a pretty rough game. The survivors literally had nothing else to do but gens.

  • Mister_HoldoutMister_Holdout Member Posts: 1,844

    Playing without Ruin is fine until you get matched with sweaty survivors.

  • yandere777yandere777 Member Posts: 516

    Of course sweaty players will win. Same can be said about playing with no mither is fine until you play against a sweaty killer

  • dont_ask_me_againdont_ask_me_again Member Posts: 466
    edited December 2019

    You’re very naive to watch a video that got a 4k and say you’d do better xd

    I don’t need to hook with a slug build... hooking is just for information when it’s necessary.

    I could slug from the start but then the survivors would use separation tactics. Amateur mistake.

    I left claudette to force her to the other side of the map.

    You actually do not guess right away with nurse trying to catch survivors but pay attention to their movement to work them out for when you do blink. Doing otherwise is how you lose with nurse. I only guessed with Nea and got her right.

    Btw I’m not a nurse main, but a survivor main... you don’t have a clue of the extent to play or resources to win with killer with no ruin.

    You’re completely depending on survivors making mistakes you set them up for.

    And I’m not concerned about the gens... just about slugging. It’s the only way to win with killer without ruin.


    edit: tldr you’re not gonna pressure gens against survivors who can complete them in that speed... you have to try to force them together at point in the match... down two and hope you snowball from there assuming they don’t read it. If you play too perfect the survivors will read you. Survivors are simply not playing as well as they potentially could or they’re being nice for the most part or they couldn’t find ruin if you brought ruin.

    gambits exist.

    Post edited by dont_ask_me_again on
  • HeartboundHeartbound Member Posts: 129

    I know they put ruin in the shrine sometimes and you can buy hag with shards but I do think they should make ruin a free perk. It's kinda pay to win for emblems.

  • SonzaishinaiSonzaishinai Member Posts: 878

    Might want to add that Tru3 and Otz are players that play thia game for a living

    You can't really compere them to the avarage player

  • FriendlyGuyFriendlyGuy Member Posts: 2,768

    I watched some matches of both. Otzdarva doesn't care about pips and emblems at all. Tru3 cares about pips and emblems.

    I care about pips and emblems. So i play strong killers that are able to play like the game wants you to.

    This. "Hex: Ruin" is not needed to 4k, but needed for pips and emblems aka win.

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 2,852

    Its not the best Nurse play ever but what would of changed if this was Trapper and all that setup time? Took 45 seconds to find their first survivor. That's over half the time on 4 gens if all survivors found their own gens to work on.

    3:34 is the time from start to last gen.

    This also shows why kill to escape is a stupid metric to balance on. Three downs and one hook is all they got before gens were done. What will the stats show? Nurse overperforming, 3k plus a DC. 🤮

  • Mr_KMr_K Member Posts: 2,852
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