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The 2 main issues of DbD

DwightOPDwightOP Member Posts: 2,328
edited December 2019 in General Discussions

- Gap between solo and swf is extremely huge. As long as this stays huge, there will be always one part (solos or killers) left behind.

- The RNG factor is to big. Some maps spawn jungle gyms back to back and the other time only TL walls. Sometimes strong windows are blocked, other times they are open. Trapper traps, pig traps etc have to much RNG in them aswell. Exit gate spawn close or not.

Rng is good, but RNG shouldn't have such a huge impact.

We need to tackle both issues to have a good base to start balancing on it.

Also, here just one example of many to show what some sweaty SWFs on coms are capable of. This coordination is impossible in solo Q (for those who keep saying "swf and solo is not a big difference" blabla):

https://youtu.be/PZ8ntmZ8WtQ?t=634

Post edited by DwightOP on

Comments

  • HoodiedHoodied Member Posts: 12,399

    Its pretty hard to balance something that is random, but the gap between solo and swf is being decreased with the Kindred buff recently, same with nolb

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,281

    The gap between solos and swf won't be filled since voice communication will not be added to the game and that's a huge part to why its broken since you know exactly what the killer is doing or running which places are dead zones who's on gens ect

  • HoodiedHoodied Member Posts: 12,399

    Kindred is awesome now, and NolB is pretty useful

    Just cause meta perks exist does not mean you should run them

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    The gap between solo and SWF isnt that much like peple try to make it. Every time I play solo there are mostly better teammates to play with, cause I dont get matched with some highrank and his lowlevel buddy.

    Also the RNG is what makes this game versatile.


    Nothing of those "issues" (one isnt even an issue at all) are main issues.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,255

    The gap between solo and a good swf can be huge.

    A good set of solo players can do better than an average swf team.

    The problem with good swf teams is not just about the comms or info but how they select the players. They know the skill level of each player, will synergies perks and coordinate on the spot changing up how they play and reacting to a situation. They are a team working as one not caring as much about their own points or emblems but more about trying to get everyone out

    Solo players even if someone has kindred or other perks still for the most part chose to do what is best for themselves. See someone running for the save and they think they can get it first they will go for it as they want the blood and emblem points.

    Even if voice chat was added this wouldn't change as you are still matched with players you have no idea about and how well they can play or chose to do. This is why voice chat is a bad idea as it just leads to trolling, others constantly telling people how they should be playing and with regions with multiple languages not knowing what is happening anyway.

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    It is VERY rare that a group of solos can beat your average SWF, but possible. I play solo pretty frequently and enjoy the fact that it's a guess as to whether I should stay on this gen or go for the hook. I enjoy trying to communicate with people in-game just using crouches/points/follow-mes, and almost always do pretty well combining in-game emotes with pre-game chat for some basic strategy. Efficiency, and being able to do that without comms, is the mark of a good survivor in this game IMO. If you aren't walking halfway to a hook and having another survivor grab them in front of you, that's 30, 40 seconds you could have stayed on a gen. Someone in discord can just say "I've got them" and boom, you have half a gen done when you otherwise wouldn't. Even light comms make a HUGE difference in this game.

  • Mellow7Mellow7 Member Posts: 792

    Solo in any multiplayer game always sucks just look at games like Apex, GTA and MHW if you aren't playing with people you know you're gonna get a bunch trolls and noobs not doing anything to benefit you.

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    The only problem with that is also that SWF really screws up the ranking system. Any ranking system is contingent upon random matchmaking with similarly-skilled players to be 100% sure you deserve to be ranked where you are. If you run with the same three other people every time, your rank could reflect anyone or all of you in your group. The same can be said of people running premades in Overwatch or something else, but still their ranking system there is way more in-depth and makes sure the matchmaking tests your premade appropriately by giving you opponents that are close to your average SR.

    The devs were heavily pressured into introducing SWF basically at gunpoint by survivor mains, so the fact that the devs didn't have it at launch means they didn't consider it in their concept of the game. That means there is a very serious problem that they'll never be able to address, so we'll keep hearing the "Well, when I play SWF we aren't tryhards, we screw around and sandbag each other" bit, and until you show me several VODs of you not communicating like a tryhard, I'm not going to believe it. Every single time I see a streamer in SWF they are doing a minimum of communicating the killer ID, location, and current chase status. They may be drinking or screwing around a bit, but they almost always still all escape and always give each other info they wouldn't have without an aura-reading perk.

  • DepressedClownMainDepressedClownMain Member Posts: 924

    I disagree with RNG being an issue. I don't think having easier matches because of tile placement or harder ones because of no good loops is bad for any side

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,255

    Thats a myth thrown around by the community just because it wasnt in the game from the start and the concept was about not knowing which they have stated but to not allow friends to play together in a multiplayer game is commercial suicide. How big an impact if would have may have been not as well thought about which is probably more the case.

    They did alway intended to allow players to play with friends they just didnt have the time for it to be added for launch so they decided to work on KWF first and why SWF was added a little later.

    https://youtu.be/gTpZSllfMmw?t=568

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    I honestly didn't know that, but that makes it even worse. So they knew going into the conceptualization of the game that they had an entire array of perks that would be made useless by a game mode. I don't even know how to handle that information honestly. Why bother with aura perks?

  • Hex_KillerMainBTWHex_KillerMainBTW Member Posts: 446

    I feel the best way to solve the solo issue is implement a voice channel for them in game. Granted I've seen solo survivor's who do really well because they have the knowledge and experience.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,255

    Aura perks are for solo players to try and aid them. Bond is an amazing solo perk and always has been.

    As I said they probably didn't understand how much of an impact comms would have on the game.

    There is also the fact the game was made by an indie studio with a small team originally and the game did so much better than anyone could have expected.

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    I mean I know that, and because of the whole losing a perk slot thing I simply have to give up that information to run a strong perk build. The only aura perk I ever use is detective's and that's for totem hunting, not info on where the killer or other survivors are. Solo survivors have to run at 3/4 strength if they want to be as efficient as SWF with comms, and that's a huge problem.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,255

    I don't even think just knowing who is being chased is an issue. Any competent solo player can tell this as soon as a hit comes in with no sound info close by. As a solo player tour sound and sight allows you to just as well and enables you to stay in a gen.

    While aura perks are good by no means are they needed or is any perk needed for that matter. If you watch a good group of solos with game knowledge they will do well versus a lot of killers. What solo don't have is knowing like swf do. "I'm going down near x place" is not just about knowing that but actually knowing someone will run in to try for say a flashlight save.

    Thats why I see the main issue with swf is not about the actual info but how they coordinate with that along with perks and items. There is no wondering if something will happen as they know it's coming. They can also setup pre game to synergise with each other.

  • ad19970ad19970 Member Posts: 3,889

    Well the best solution would be to add kindred to the game's base kit. Balance wise at least.

    I wouldn't say solo survivor sucks though. They still have the potential to do just as good as good swf groups, it's just harder and less likely, sadly. Still enjoying solo survivor regardless.

  • CrowFoxyCrowFoxy Member Posts: 1,273

    3. The general gameplay is also a massive issue. Generator times, looping being basically your only option anymore, stealth is boring and unrewarding (more hiding spots than lockers thanks?)

    It's just not fun after a while, to be morid. To be keyed (if I can call it that.) To be tunnelled, to be genrushed. It's just not fun and it is too frustrating, that's why surv queue times are long probably, matching with low rank killers who are new or survs trying killer.

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    You talk of the coordination and that's what I mean by telling if the killer is taking a chase or not. Against solo survivors, and especially using weird perks like Dark Devotion on killer, you can easily hit one and then rotate targets and catch someone off-guard. With comms, your friend gets hurt, and they can tell you immediately if the killer is taking the chase with them or moving on.

    Adding kindred to base kit for survivor is just totally screwing killers. Every single team you face would now be as efficient as a tryhard SWF with comms. The inefficiency of communication on a survivor team is what is supposed to give the killer a chance to gain momentum. Survivors should feel isolated, and it should take either a perk or game sense to find teammates and coordinate. If you can see one of your teammates sitting right by the guy on hook, you don't have the potential for you and/or your fourth teammate to end up wasting time running in for the save. Giving that information away for free would shoot survival rates through the roof.

  • SafetyOffSafetyOff Member Posts: 68

    I agree. The solo vs SWF gap is huge. Which means that killers usually get free games vs solos and cannot win va SWF. It's awful as a solo player.

  • DwightOPDwightOP Member Posts: 2,328

    I agree, in order to FULLY fill the gap voice coms needs to be added. But actually, many solos don't want that. I don't want it either. And the goal of many solos (me including) isn't even to give them the tools to be on the EXACT SAME level of coordination like swf. The goal is to close it as much as possible without adding voice coms or permanent aura reading. Examples: kindred basekit (at least show the aura of camping killers), totem counter in the HUD, chase indicator in the HUD, rank and perk selected showing the lobby etc.

  • DwightOPDwightOP Member Posts: 2,328

    Buddy, you are so inside your own bubble that you completely missed the point and goal of the topic. Try again.

  • ClickNinjaClickNinja Member Posts: 59

    Agree with the gap 100%, that's why there needs to be an option for solo survivors to BLOCK SWF teams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • TheDizTheDiz Member Posts: 239

    I don't care who you are or how you try to argue it, but the video that DwightOP shared was EXACTLY why you can't balance this game without completely killing solo survivors because I play as killer and 4k so easily unless it's an obvious SWF team and only play as solo survivor. To be honest the killers that keep crying about ruin needing to be standard and asking for other killer buffs are just coming off a bad loss to a team like in the video and have nothing to say about the 5 games previously that they slaughtered a bunch of solo survivors, lol

  • LetsPlayTogetherLetsPlayTogether Member Posts: 2,117

    And how oftern does this happen? Once a day. Good grief, cry your little tears. I often play SWF and have never been so communicative along the game, cause you know, I just wanna play with my friends and have fun. Overestimating SWF is the only thing this forum can do pretty good.

  • DwightOPDwightOP Member Posts: 2,328
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