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Why are immersive players looked down upon?



  • TooKoolFoUTooKoolFoU Member Posts: 378

    I die due to immersed players most times as a solo survivor. That speaks from the red/purple ranks. I expect better from a player than to cluelessly let me die on the hook after I just finished a long chase. I always run kindred so they don’t lack info when I’m hooked. The immersed survivor who typically does nothing is the worst killer in the game. If one survivor is being chased and is apparent than they should be hitting skill checks on gens while the chased survivor is occupying the killer. I recommend all immerse players to use bond as you can better direct yourself in game.

  • PurpSmoke92PurpSmoke92 Member Posts: 8

    Immersive players are actually the worst. Literally letting team down. You dont see many immersive players at rank 1 for a reason.

  • karatinac97karatinac97 Member Posts: 210

    You're acting as if all stealth players are useless, Urban Evasioning around the map though?? It's simply not true. OP stated that they do all objectives while avoiding the killer, how is this bad exactly? You're talking about the (probably) new players who haven't learned when it's a good time to start sprinting or acting on an objective. Those people should not be in red rank. Yes, this person needs to learn how to at least do basic loops but that doesn't mean they are bad at the game?? 🧐

    I like playing stealth and am very objective based but I don't Urban Evasion and crouch everywhere. I never leave someone on the hook and will run to the other side of the map if I have to. So do you have a serious problem with me being at red rank even though I like stealth?

    At the end of the day survivors SHOULD use a mix of aggressive and stealth tactics. You can't group all stealth players together and say they're crap. They probably do a lot more than you realise.

  • RIP_LegionRIP_Legion Member Posts: 428

    Easy question, nobody on Earth wants to play with people who urban evasion across the map to unhook you meanwhile you've already hit second state and oh look they were found and grabbed out of the locker they desperately hid in.

  • Atrushan88Atrushan88 Member Posts: 2,083
    edited December 2019

    The funny thing is this is what I see people actually say the game SHOULD be. People just hiding and once the killer finds you it's over.

    To OP, being over immersed leads to you not getting hooked, and killing your team faster. Also if you unhook me and then run off to a corner of the map then I'm not going to follow you for you to heal me. I'll look for a med kit and heal myself, or go to a gen, or let someone else heal me. As a survivor who is on the hook, I can see what is happening/if the killer will come back because I generally have more information than you do in this instance. If I see a person running around in weird zig zags and throwing pallets, I know they're in a chase and the killer isn't coming back. Now if you wanna run to a nearby pallet to heal me, sure, but I'm not going to follow you off on an extended journey just to get a heal. Either heal me at the hook, or go to a generator. If you're that worried about being caught out at the hook, bring We'll Make it. If I'm wagging my arms at you, it's because either all 3 of you are in far off corners of the map going to make me go into struggle, or I'm nearly into stage two and every single one of you are on gens.

    Hiding is fine, but if you hide all game then you're going to have the other 3 people on a stage 3 hook state while you're on stage one, killing us all before all the gens are done. If you wanna be immersed, ALSO be capable of looping.

  • ElvenmonkElvenmonk Member Posts: 367

    Then they should work on their stealth.

    You can be stealthy and still play the game.

  • Mtom912Mtom912 Member Posts: 740

    Not everyone wants to play stealth, for example I would rather never touch survivor again if I have to spend the game crouching around each time I get a heartbeat

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,710
    edited December 2019

    Keeping the stealth players in lower ranks is why you end up in red ranks with a bunch of loopers looking for action and hook rushing not doing gens.

    id argue that aggressive play style is less efficient in quantity than stealth.

    I can do about 3-4 gens solo while the other three run around “playing ring around the Rosie“ Bc they can’t seem to stay away from the killer long enough to not kill each other off before I can finish them by myself. Most people aren’t as good at looping as they THINK THEY ARE .

    Bc if atleast even 1 of them also touched a gen we’d be done with the objective before you all killed each other off.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    Well yeah, if your teammates are distracting the killer then obviously that frees you up to do generators, but it doesn't always work that way. If you're the first to get found, or if you go for an unhook and get chased, and you can't loop, you're going to die pretty quickly. That's why that kind of aggressive playstyle is valued at high ranks, because no matter how good you are at stealth, a good killer will find you eventually and then you're screwed.

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,710

    I mean I guess if you think being chased is the primary objective WHICH ITS NOT. There’s also a big difference between stealth and being useless, id say say a bunch of people safe hook farming each other with bt and not touching gens is the equivalent to stealth players who don’t touch gens and catch never catch the unbroken emblem.

    my point is over altruism(even though also completely useless) is rewarded higher than doing the primary objective and dying first hook.

    so you can be the best at altruism and still get chaser And max out both and have an easier time pipping even though you did 0 to power exit gates,die and be highly awarded for it

    while if you were on the opposite end of the scale and did all the gens, and stayed away from the killer (essentially unbroken) , and pip, but if you did all of that and get found and die on first hook Bc the whole team skips out and leaves you , you safety at best Bc unbroken was nullified and you maybe get a brown silver or gold in evader depending on how long you lasted in the chase, which by the time your found if you are good most of the pallets areas are barren.

    So from one extreme to the other altruism is favored over stealth Bc how emblems work.

    if you’re balanced between the two like Monto or pugs play style then you’re well rounded however most players are either one extreme or the other. You can see this if you integrate both play styles the huge disadvantage that both give.

  • darthvader501darthvader501 Member Posts: 13

    I play immersive but I do the objectives

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    Of course a mix of both is ideal, that goes without saying, but when it comes to stealth versus aggression I feel like you're not listening to what I'm actually saying. I never said that stealthy players are useless or anything close to that, in fact I said the complete opposite in the comment you initially replied to.

    While it's true that being chased isn't the objective of the game, neither is doing generators. Escaping is the objective, and that can be achieved in a variety of ways. But stealthy players are more vulnerable to being caught in the open and killed (thus failing their objective) than players who are good in chases and therefore don't need to rely on not being seen to survive. Good killers will always find the survivors no matter how stealthy they are, so it makes sense that an aggressive playstyle is favoured over stealth in high-ranked play, not just by the players but by the design of the game itself.

    Stealth is simply not as reliable a tactic as looping, because it is much more heavily reliant on one's opponent making mistakes. Once again, I am personally a fan of stealth. It's my preferred playstyle, and I wish it were more viable than it is. But the fact is that, because of the way the game is currently set up, stealth alone is just not as viable against good opponents as the alternative.

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,710

    Yeah I mean if you suck in general at stealth and you’re the first found and can’t run at all sure , I highly doubt those people would make it to red ranks though forever stuck in green or yellow maybe due to luck. I personally think the most absolute trash stealth player not being efficient sucks, just as bad as altruists who hook farm before you can get through a single ruin gen, and look you’re all dead 4/5 gens up. both contribute 0 to the overall goal.

    the difference is if you’re a trash stealth player and doing all the gens and go down quick you’re not awarded anywhere near as much as an altruist with bt who also goes down quick. That’s the difference in favoritism as neither really contributes Bc either way people are spending more time going for saves whether you’re the altruist immediately getting hooked after saving or first down gen jockey. The altruist or gen person if they both put the an equal amount of effort the altruist is awarded more

    I am listening to you, but you’re using just bad stealth as an example compared to the best chaser.

    the thing is though if you have 4 of the best stealth players who can do gens and power gates to get out without anyone getting caught you’re not rewarded anywhere near as much as 4 of the best runners who also do gens and get out. Both are viable, actual stealth isn’t rewarded enough Bc it’s much harder to pip, even though it’s hands down if we are talking BEST STEALTH 4 man much more optimal to the goal of survival.

    you’ll get iri lightbringer and evader(which is how you get unbroken) at best. with not a lot of points.

    where if you max out evader ,and light bringer through chasing over stealth you’ll get a significant amount of more points.

    but if throw in saves on either play style shouldn’t be a problem. the overall problem isn’t stealth vs chaser but when either side doesn’t touch gens when they aren’t hiding or being chased. Or poor time management with saves either being too early or too late. I blame the over under altruism personally. Not the optimal stealthers or the runners as a play style if both are doing gens when they should be. That’s where we differ.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343
    edited December 2019

    I'm more interested in analysing game design as per the OP than I am in analysing the emblem system, which I think we can all agree is flawed. The only reason the emblem system came up at all was because I mentioned that I could see where Peanits was coming from with regards to the decision to reward stealth-based play less, because it's not actually the optimal strategy. I never even said I agreed with him, just that I understood his point.

    I think where we differ is on how viable stealth is as a strategy. I know stealth isn't rewarded as highly as boldness or altruism, the point was that there might be a reason for that.

    I'm not comparing bad stealth to great looping, I'm saying that no matter how good you are at stealth, the best killers will always find you anyway, and if stealth is all you're good at, you're screwed. Whereas you suck at stealth and you're only good at looping, you have a much higher chance of survival.

  • ParallaxParallax Member Posts: 268

    Honestly, I would rather be ran for 5 gens than never find anyone the entire match.

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,710

    im half asleep not even going to lie, but I am enjoying our debate.

    you can be the best stealther or looper but if others aren’t doing gens you’re going to die, either way. One isn’t more optimal than the other if you’re really good at staying alive it all boils down to the rest of the team. A stealther not getting caught and going back on the gen saves time for everyone else be it gen time of save time. A looper distracting the killer does the exact same thing. One isn’t greater than the other in my humble opinion.

    so to me whether they stealth or loop isn’t the problem it’s what they do outside of it so I’m with you on that.

    as far as game play goes some people like info builds to get the stealthers, while others enjoy chase builds as far killer goes. Unless ya know they mix. So a good killer to someone else might be a bad killer to me due to my, their, or your weaknesses/strengths being exposed to an opposition play style.

    in my brain I know it just comes down to game knowledge gens/ and opportune save time.

    whether or not they are trying to build the game on chases alone is another thing.

    im just saying stealth matches are out there where it’s stealth vs stealth and that’s fun for some people.

    I imagine if you’re playing a stealth team and have a load out for closing down chases or gens you’re not going to have a good time. But if you have info perks/addons it will be great. Load outs matter.

    just because some people think the entire game revolves around 1 playstyle (cough chases cough)doesn’t mean everyone else does.

    I can pip just fine stealthing, saving, doing gens , heals , totems, and juking if caught if they aren’t stacked on chase perks

    my only complaint is I can do everything but get in a chase and still make less points than the guy that just chased and did a couple of saves. It’s mildly triggering. Umm like hello I just did all that and to be POG I have to do chases with almost an entire map of dead zones and 0 chase perks just to beat that one guy who did 2 things.

  • FibijeanFibijean Member Posts: 8,343

    Yeah, I do know how you feel. As I said, I personally favour a stealthy playstyle.

    I think the distinction to be made is that I'm talking about viability in terms of how each playstyle affects your chances of not getting killed before the gates open, whereas you're thinking of it in terms of how it affects the chances of the gates getting opened at all. In which case, I can see why you'd say that either approach can be equally effective.

  • ThasardThasard Member Posts: 267

    I hope you play on PC.

  • SpookyJeffSpookyJeff Member Posts: 108

    This is a complete tangent, but I wave my arms on hook to tell you the killer is close (my hook gymnastics sync with the heartbeat, and fuller motions for louder heartbeat). It sucks no one has a universal meaning for this, but consider it may not always mean to come save them right then.

  • HeroLivesHeroLives Member Posts: 1,710

    I prefer stealth also. I’ve tried a lot of other play styles, it’s my favorite.

    I can survive just as long if not longer than the best looper. Inside of a chase though I probably won’t last as long due to my load out and if the killer has theirs stacked on chase and has a brain. It basically cuts an even playing field in half for stealth. Where a killer with a stacked chase loadout vs a loop loadout would be more equal footing. However ,I’m least likely to end up in a chase.

    where if it’s not stacked they have stealth stacked like me, then chases are on a much more equal footing I can give them a good go however still not as long as the stacked looper

    both are equally beneficial. whether it be giving the team time by looping, or giving the team time by being open for gens, saves, totems, and saving them time from having to save me Bc I’m not getting hooked due to stealth.

    Either way you can only carry a team so far with either play style. Sometimes the other shits don’t know what opportune saves or doing a gen/ gen commitment is.

    like I can only do so many gens if 3 ppl are immediately saving each other to death.

    you can only run a killer so long before you’ve created a mass amount of dead zones Where looping is just drastically harder and somehow 0 gens got done.

    at least with stealth I can ensure the primary objective (Gens) is getting progressed. It sucks when you do all the work either way just to die. I’d rather be on a team with people that do gens and save before next phase no matter if they’re a runner or stealther than a team that just hangs around the hook doing back to back saves like “why isn’t anyone doing any gens”- 3 people at the hook just hanging out.

    my real enemy is over altruists who don’t touch gens.

  • ElvenmonkElvenmonk Member Posts: 367

    I didn't say that I said be stealthy.

    You can play the game fine and be stealthy.you just have to learn what to look and listen for

  • JereBearJereBear Member Posts: 30

    As someone that plays a little bit of both... I feel that. Like... There is nothing worse as a killer in my opinion then having four Claudette players sneak around in the tall grass with Urban invasion. Not only do matches like that make it impossible for other survivors to get decent amounts of points... But it makes the game completely not fun for the killer in question because they can't do anything. While there is something to be said for the strategy as a whole... Unfortunately I tend to run across people that are doing it in a group rather than just a team with one.

  • cipherbay_cipherbay_ Member Posts: 344

    Most people say it's an unfun play style but as a killer main I think it's one of the best ways to waste the killers time.

  • UsuiUsui Member Posts: 531

    Nope, they aren't new if they are in red ranks. Just bad. The one's i'm referring to aren't doing anything but being an immersive clown, not on gens, watching people die on hook, not going for saves. Let's just say i've only ever seen ONE good immersive survivor.

  • AcculllaAccullla Member Posts: 984

    As killer I don't enjoy playing against immersed teams, as I have to spend more time looking in corners and lockers than I actually do chasing them. I find this boring. The thing I dread the most is having 2 immersed players still alive with 1 or 2 gens to finish. I'll search for them for a minute or 2 and if I don't find them or don't see any progress on the gens and then i'll just go afk. I find this incredibly boring

    As survivor I don't mind taking the aggro if I have immersed teammates, as long as they don't let me miss a hook stage. If I see people crouching around the map while I go to second stage, I will not struggle.

  • MegMain98MegMain98 Member Posts: 2,822

    Killers hate it because they’re bored all match and have to check every bush and corner for survivors. ESPECIALLY on a map like Yamaoka, it’s so dreadfully boring. I snooze.

    As a survivor, if I see survivors with Urban Evasion crouching around when the match JUST started I roll my eyes and keep going. The best part about DBD is the chase. What’s the point of playing generator simulator. It’s so boring. If my teammates are going to crouch on the outskirts of the map and not do generators, cleanse totems, search chests, save teammates, or DO SOMETHING then they are useless.

    In a nutshell, immersion is boring.

  • OGBatDad69OGBatDad69 Member Posts: 32

    Dude just a joke please dont ######### I didnt know you were one of those

  • Polychrome_BakuPolychrome_Baku Member Posts: 404
    edited December 2019

    If the red stain didn't exist, maybe I'd agree with you. Unless you're facing a stealth killer, you have so much advanced warning that it doesn't take much skill to stay out of sight.

    Looping and pallet management take far more skill. And when I'm playing survivor, I'll take a good looper over some immersed Blendette with a key any day. At least I know the looper isn't going to just wait for me to die while they urban evade around for the hatch.

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