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Ruin, Thoughts and Opinions

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  • BigTimeGamerBigTimeGamer Member Posts: 1,752

    Please read this and respond as I'm genuinely curious: Do you guys play your own game at the higher ranks?

    Ruin, while overused I agree, is essentially required in the early game due to the gen speeds going lightning fast. The pressure it helps killers build can buy them time to find survivors and starts making downs. Assuming it isn't cleansed in the first 2 minutes, which it usually is and will continue to be, it can be extremely useful at applying pressure. While I hit ruin checks 9/10 times, when a game starts and the killer doesn't have it, I think "well this game is pretty much over."

    Against an even slightly knowledgeable a team, even a top tier killer (spirit, nurse, etc) can be looped long enough for 2-3 gens to pop before first hook. This is not to even mention SWF which if good can already plow through ruin but will be even stronger now that they have nothing to even slightly slow them down. If that happens, it's usually GG unless the killer has NOED, tunnels, or does some other annoying thing that will get them at best 1 kill. The weaker killers, (Clown, Legion etc) who have little to no map pressure or mobility suffer even more as gens can pop before they even find a single person. These killers on the bigger maps are basically playing a loss unless the survivors are complete potato. I am Rank 1 and 2 on both sides currently but haven't played killer lately due to the amount of RNG they rely on with maps, among other issues, the changes to Ruin just shows how little you understand your own game as playing solo survivor and relying on randoms is a much easier time than killer (as it always has been tbh.)

    Without proper map pressure, most killers relied on ruin to make up for their lack of it in their kit, and with the amount of massive maps with heavy RNG that can screw over a killer completely, this change will just drive more people to either : Quit, Play survivor, or force more people to play the same 3-4 killers who have a sense of pressure.

    (btw taking away the weaker killers' main perk for pressure in a way is a nerf to pig, thought it was funny and sad)

  • ppo8820ppo8820 Member Posts: 763

    I get why it was nerfed. It’s in every game, but what did devs do to solve the reason of WHY it’s in every game? There’s a bigger issue than ruin and no one at BHVR seems to get that.

    I play survivor mainly but started killer and even with ruin, my gens are popping left and right. I’m rank 14 killer, rank 5 survivor. I’m getting matched with rank 5-6 survivors as a rank 14 killer. I relied on ruin to give me a shot to not get owned. Survivors always found the totem anyway in first few minutes


    If you want killers to relax a bit maybe make pip requirements less so they don’t need a 4K to level up?

  • DankyDanky Member Posts: 216

    if u removed the "Totem" part of the perk that that would make sense but again i doubt that would happen as that still to strong vs survivors

  • MyNamePeteMyNamePete Member Posts: 1,037

    get ready for the wave of protesters and quitters

    ggwp

  • PyroGLPyroGL Member Posts: 239

    @Peanits Can you confirm that the changed Hex: Ruin will also apply Overcharge? It would be highly inconsistent for Surveillance to work, but not Overcharge.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    I honestly think this is going to turn away a ton of Killer players, which will negatively affect Survivor players by increasing their queue time.

    In my opinion, this update will be a negative impact overall. Killers got one of their best perks nerfed, without any sort of compensation in the form of buffs AND they got the Doctor who looks to be only marginally better.

  • SinnerSinner Member Posts: 334

    Great change, all the killers whining is justified, because is a good perk vs swf teams, while against random survivors became op, after they changed the hex placements and didn't do anything to fix ranking and matchmaking.

    As a mostly solo survivor player, I am very happy and I might actually start playing again if this goes live.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    If it wasn't a Hex perk, it would be a decent perk. Not great, not bad tho.

    However, its still a Hex perk. This perk will never win you a game, it will only make the games you win more lopsided.

    I'm just so glad they change all the annoying stuff for Survivors. This has definitely shaken my confidence in the Devs, that they list that as a reason, but they haven't addressed a lot of the issues Killer's have. Maybe I'm entitled, but I play both sides and Survivor feels a LOT better to play then Killer.

  • Dr_TrautsDr_Trauts Member Posts: 704

    its dead. play survivor if you want to have fun, cause if you have fun with killer the devs will find out whats fun about it and destroy it infront of you. You arent supposed to have fun as killer, your to act as the survivors punching bag

  • PeanitsPeanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 6,677

    It doesn't trigger Overcharge as Overcharge is based on kicking while Surveillance is based on regression (regardless of how it was applied).

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    So, Surveillance will be active on every gen?

    Is this why it is still a Hex perk, because of the potential synergy?

    Also, am I correct in assuming that if you bring Ruin, you cannot use PGTW, Overcharge or Surge?

  • PyroGLPyroGL Member Posts: 239

    Appreciate the response, but I don't see the logic being applied here. Regardless of the wording on Surveillance, the only (normal) way to regress a gen is to kick it. The only other perk that does this is Surge, which, sounds to me like you guys are picking and choosing perk synergies.

  • OogieBoogieOogieBoogie Member Posts: 157

    I don't think the new effect will be enough to warrant it being a hex. However, if it does remain a hex I'd suggest adding an effect to limit repair speed to 100%. Teaming up on gens would still let you repair it faster, but other bonuses from toolboxes or perks as well as great checks wouldn't apply as long as the totem stays up. This would ensure that the regression is always half of a single survivor's progress.

  • RivynRivyn Member Posts: 2,966

    Ruin WAS the pressure. You remove that, and there's nothing stopping the three survivors on the other side of the map completing four gens in two minutes.

  • PeanitsPeanits Dev, Community Manager Posts: 6,677

    Part of the reason, but not the only reason. It works very well with Surveillance, but it's still pretty solid on its own. As for other perks, you probably won't want to pair them with Ruin. They can still be used as a backup if Ruin gets cleansed, but they're not ideal together.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    Hmmm. I'll be testing this out on the PTB, my first time yay! So I'll post my thoughts then.

    Biggest problems I currently see is that totems are still unreliable and the effect is gives is not all that strong, especially in the early game, as you've said. Survivors WILL cleanse it as soon as they see it. The odds of it making it to the late game are very slim, as they are with every Hex perk.

    I suppose we will just have to wait and see.

  • HauntedMandalorianHauntedMandalorian Member Posts: 99

    I'm not a weak Killer, so I don't use Hex: Ruin. As a Survivor, it can be frustrating to be in a match with Hex: Ruin in play, and I like how it has been addressed. It seems a lot more fair.

  • thesuicidefoxthesuicidefox Member Posts: 8,227
    edited January 2020

    I don't really agree with these changes.

    First x2 gen regression isn't that much when you consider base regression is 1/4th progression speed. It will still take 160 seconds for a gen to fully regress.

    Second it's still a totem, and in a lot of games Ruin is gone in the first minute. So any late game potential is thrown out the window when the perk can just be removed from the game pretty much instantly.

    Finally, while I am glad Gatekeeper got a rework, that's not really why people use Ruin. They use Ruin because otherwise the gens go way too fast for them to control. Gatekeeper is a completely separate issue altogether. The two are not related at all.

    I do like the idea of automatically causing regression if it's not being worked on but I think changing Ruin like this is a bad decision.

    Honestly if I were to have changed anything about Ruin I would have just increased the size of great skill checks by maybe 10% so that they are a bit easier to hit, then add the automatic regression feature and slightly reduce the penalty for missing great skill checks. This would have made it less frustrating to deal with for less skilled players and still require some effort on the killer's part to earn the pressure given by Ruin without gutting the perk.

    I hope BHVR reconsiders this change. I agree Ruin is boring AF to play against, and I can hit great skill checks 95% of the time, but this is not the way to fix it.

  • Shirtless_MyersShirtless_Myers Member Posts: 248

    I'd agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that it's a one sided argument, you're removing training wheels while giving them to survivors. Ruin already had multiple counters to begin with if you weren't any good with hitting great skill checks and Pop is generally stronger than Ruin currently.

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    Ruin was pretty balanced.

    If you can't hit skill checks, cleanse the totems.

    If you can, don't bother.

  • KycerKycer Member Posts: 337

    Are you kidding with me right now??? Why is it even still a hex perk??? Omg I love the devs of this game!!!

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501

    Cut them some slack, they are people too.

    Everyone is upset, let's give them some time.

  • twistedmonkeytwistedmonkey Member, Trusted Posts: 4,262
    edited January 2020

    It seems pretty strong still but I do have a fear regarding saves and solo play.

    This has potential to make solo play worse imo as who will really leave a gen when its over 50% done?

  • johnmwarnerjohnmwarner Member Posts: 3,793

    So you are confirmed that the passive regression will work with Surveillance?

  • kid187emkid187em Member Posts: 102

    So new killers should get punished while new survivors should get their hand held because they can't hit great skill checks. Good logic....🙄

  • PulsarPulsar Member Posts: 12,501
  • BugReporteBugReporte Member Posts: 102

    FAX. And killer challenges are going to be so useless like sacrifice all in basement while running hex devour hope or some ######### because now it's going to be ######### to play killer unless your farming and half the times red ranks will think your running noed and won't help you

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