A perk change, which according to you, doesn't effect you. In your case what you have to weigh in doesn't matter, and is disrespectful to players who choose to use Ruin. It effects out gameplay choices so our feedback matters instead.
I'm tired of childish people who say, in effect, "this change doesn't effect me so to hell with those that it does. I got mine."
all they had to do was make it a non hex perk for it to be mid tier.. but lets butcher it and still make it a totem perk whew. ruin went from the strongest to the weakest perk so fast
Lmao no, I’m expressing my experience without Ruin. If I can do it, and I’m not even close to an amazing killer, anyone can do it. I literally matchmaker with reds as a Rank 5-6 Killer. I finish most games with at least 3 kills.
actually go and play a few games without it, see how you fare then come provide feedback or complaints. Most of everyone is bitching before even giving it a chance.
“OMG I JUST SAW WHERE THEY [BAD WORD] UP RUIN” Keyword - SAW
let’s get some constructive feedback through gameplay instead of figuratively speaking on the matter.
“It’s going to make gen rushing that much faster”
This may be a distant and INCREDIBLY unlikely positive to this happening.. but, unfortunately, with the way games are done so quickly... they're either gonna have to add a second objective for survivors to get out or nerf gens by adding more time, or making it impossible for more than 1-2 survivors to work on gens.
70 percent of red ranks killers dont even use ruin cause survivors usually hit the skill checks anyways. Ranting about ruin being not good enough. Sounds like OP is a hardstuck purple rank that doesnt get why hes not climbing despite running ruin every game. "Im running ruin why am i not being handed free wins?" You know people can just hit the skill checks and not care right? "But i have ruin and im not winning" yeah people are just hitting the skill check. "So let me get this straight, if i run ruin, i dont automatically win?" Correct. "Huh thats weird. Never thought about that" try corrupt intervention, blocking the furthest gens forces survivors to walk to you which on bigger maps, like Ormond, a good swf can literally complete a gen through ruin before you even arrive. Corrupt and whispers man. Really stronk. Forces them to walk to you and then you can catch a hint when you get close. Will literally force a chase within 30 seconds most games. Use a legit strat instead of camping ruin half the game and wondering why you cant climb.
Lemme just pull out that pool chair for the survivors and hand them a pina colada while I'm at it.
What? You wanted pineapple in it? I'm so sorry. lemme just nerf myself real quick.
Freddy just got nerfed. Before that he needed a rework because they beat him to death with the nerf hammer. So fixing a terrible design choice isn't being killer sided. Just saying.
It's not like maps or perks that help find totems don't exist to find ruin right? RIGHT?!
the best mods say don't insult people, then insult people
The dev notes specifically say the changes were made to make survivor gameplay more fun.
Killer feelings were not taken into account.
Dread it. Run From it. The Ruin Replacement build arrives all the same
You know, I have spent the past week trying to defend this game after one of my friends quit. I told myself that I would just focus on playing killer in order to vary up the gameplay a bit. I even started streaming and was really excited about improving my skill level with different killers. But this... I can't even with this. I can't defend it at all.
"It is less useful in the early game, but very useful in the late game."
Show me a Hex: Ruin that even makes it to the late game more than five percent of the time. Especially at red ranks. Ruin is a vital early game tool in order to gain a modicum of momentum. I mean, I'm usually just hoping I can get one hook before the Ruin goes down, and it's inevitably gone within the first 2-3 minutes of the game unless I camp it. I find the assertion that this perk can be "useful" in the late game to be insulting to the collective intelligence of those who play killer even semi-regularly. It's just not. There is NO hex perk that you can rely on to be useful in the late game. Not a single one.
All of these notes talk about how this game experience is for survivors and take absolutely no account into the experience is for the killers. BHVR has made it very clear in these patch notes that their priority is making the game fun for survivors. For killers? Crickets. I'm Rank 1 survivor and Rank 2 killer at the moment, so it's not like I main one or the other, but the survivor bias from BHVR here is overwhelmingly obvious.
If these changes goes through, I don't think I can play this game anymore. I've invested so much time (and money) in Dead by Daylight and it makes me really sad to see where the design philosophy is going. It's all focused on the fun of new survivor players and killer is just becoming a chore. Eventually, the killers who do keep playing this game are going to get really tired of being a pinata and then lobby times are going to be even more egregious than they already are.
I couldn't be more disappointed in the direction of this game right now.
Y’all realize Corrupt Intervention, Pop Goes the Weasel, and Thanataphobia still exist, right?
70% of red ranks don't use ruin? Did you read the patch notes? They have official statistics that 80% of red rank killers use ruin. And the reason is because it makes low-tier killers more fun and viable due to the game not ending before they can get a few hooks. With how fast gen speeds are, killers that aren't built around chases like nurse and spirit will consistently have upwards of 3 gens done before they even have a chance to get their first hook, and most killer powers aren't strong enough to carry a game with only 2 gens left and one hook. If the game is already over before a killer has the chance to show off their skill and ability at this game, then it doesn't matter if you're the best killer in DBD, the game is already over. That's not fun at low ranks or high ranks. Ruin is so popular and so powerful because with it the game will last for at least a few chases, allowing a killer to try and show their skill, resulting in a more fair game where either killer or survivor could win depending on who is actually better.
It didn't need a buff, but it didn't need THAT rough of a nerf. Totem smashers will just steamroll the perk right out of the game, but they could always do that. The only thing this does is just give more time before they have to find that SPECIFIC totem.
As said, late game it would hold a lot of power, buuutttt the totem staying up all game to be useful then is wishful thinking.
I want to see a stat that they haven't given yet. @Peanits , wanna convice them to give us a stat showing what percentage of games a LIT totem makes it through without being cleansed?
Be honest, if thats untrackable it's fine. Yet I think that stat should influence the idea of basing a Hex perk around being beneficial in the Late Game.
Plus side... NOED got buffed.
Exactly. They just released a rework for Doctor, a low-tier killer almost nobody plays for how weak he is, to try and fix his problems, and literally didn't have a single word about how it feels to play doctor or how to make him stronger. They genuinely do not care about the killer role. You CANNOT rework or design a killer with only survivors in mind because in order for the killer to actually show up in the game, killer players have to choose to be the killer. If they don't care how it feels for killers to play doctor, nobody will play doctor. They can't balance this game and the killers if they're ONLY listening to the survivor side.
Funny I play both to red ranks but you say how would survivors feel if Dead Hard or Adrenaline got nerfed... Let me remind you that the meta perks that have been nerfed are the following:
SB (Exhaustion nerf)
Balanced landing (recent stager being taken away)
Dead Hard (Exhaustion nerf and change to make it so can only proc when sprinting)
DS (we all know the DS rework which like ruin reword is a giant nerf)
Borrowed Time (used to give borrowed time to unhooked and unhooker)
Adrenaline (this is a really old one but I am only mentioning it because you did but it never used to cause exhaustion)
Self Care (it used to be used as much as ruin is now, but was nerfed into the ground multiple times with both a debuff on the speed and a nerf to heal speed in total. Now it is rarely used at red ranks, just as I imagine ruin won't be.)
Mettle of Man (this one needed a nerf but then again Ruin needed to be looked at)
Hopefully ruin being nerfed will mean that killer kill rates plummet and gen times will be made longer or a mandatory secondary objective will be added. Nerfs aren't a bad thing all the time. If a nerf doesn't lead to a balance then something else will be buffed. Ruin being nerfed means that complaints will happen about gen times, eventually the Devs will give and do something about gen times. Survivors hated it when the healing nerf happened but they managed to live with it, we can live without ruin until the next buff.
Really BHVR? This is just plain stupid. I have no words and I have lost all the hope for this game. It is going down hard. Doesnt even matter at this point if the change goes through or not. How could anyone think this was a good idea? RIP my hopes for this game. The devs just dont listen to us at all..they have been taking such a bad directions lately. so I wont be back any time soon. Im rank 1 survivor btw. I have devoted 1500 hours into this game but I dont see it getting better anytime soon.
Yes because every new person to the game was going against ruin and was not hitting any skill checks, ruin only really effected low ranks, red ranks can consistently hit greats and no totem spawns, tier 3 ruin against a rank 20 team is an easy win for anyone.
Im only hoping that they change this to be a non-hex perk
i actually absolutely love this change to ruin. don't usually run it on any killers anymore unless im doing a super gen slowdown build. this will be interesting to see. i just see it as a problem that it can be cleansed.
newer ruin rewards the killer for applying pressure, whilst old ruin gave free map pressure for absolutely no reason. it was ******** on both sides but with this change its actually interactive, so even if it is kept as a hex perk (Which i disagree with but eh) it will be way more interactive then the old style of ruin.
@MandyTalk @Peanits if newer gen speeds become such a problem without ruin however, would a system where gens at the start of the match/game are done slower to prevent early game pressure from being lost be added? something like a passive behind the scenes debuff until a killers first interaction with a survivor (chase or hit?) or a slight behind the scenes debuff for all gens remaining in order to make them slower, and later gens slightly faster to make it easier on killers with early game difficulty such as the trapper with his set up time.
It's going to be hard to pip in 5 minute games.
It isn't a rework its a nerf to an already weak killer.
Sounds like a matchmaking problem to me.
I agree with you 100 percent. I love the changes, but when attached to a hex perk they seem a bit weak.
Hex perks need to be ridiculously strong to be worth using. Now I have no doubts in my mind that Hex ruin was absolutely cancerous at lower ranks and was pretty balanced at high ranks. But why should BHVR balance for just red ranks?
I think that removing notifications about hex perks would be a good change to make hex perks better in general. You need to realize that a perk is active without being told that, "hey you're under the affect of huntress lullaby, maybe you should be on the lookout for a hex totem"
Okay put it this way, nerfed those perks to the point of uselessness.
Those perks got adjusted/balanced
Ruin got butchered for no reason. And end game perk tied to a totem thats going to be cleansed in the beginning of the game. Survivors get nerfs/adjustments, killers get butchered
I don't understand the change for ruin as to why the change according to the reasons.
Ruin was to good against new players and bad players but Ruin was used no more than 45% of the games across all ranks while 80% in red ranks.
But new players is the 1st issue despite its not really an issue considering the use of it. I think matchmaking is more of an issue having to wait 5+ minutes for games cause all the low level survivors 15-20 are playing swf with their rank 1-10 friends. Which hurts killer ques at 15-20 and survivor que times who aren't playing swf.
But lets stay on Ruin discussion. The entire reason people use ruin is to prevent horrible punishing gatekeeper emblems. I can kill 4 survivors and either de pip or saftey pip simply because as a Plague I didn't M1 enough cause they never cleansed and they were able to do enough gens but still die.
Pipping itself is horrible for killers. Not every killer functions the same. Even a trapper will get screwed with their own traps. You are also not very clear on the gatekeeper pipping change either.
Currently, Gatekeeper's underlying points are scored as a number of points per generator remaining to be repaired multiplied by which minute the match is in. Additional points are scored for any remaining generators at the end of the Trial.
that was the old way. You needed a lot of gens up for the 1st 9 minutes as possible and what ever you had left gave a nice boost buuuuuuuuuuuut. Devs...you say the wanted results is 2 survivors escape and 2 dead to be a balanced game but for 2 survivors to escape they have to do the gens. The old way PUNISHED killers hard if survivors blew through them gens even if all 4 didn't even escape.
How does the new way impact it?
If survivors are able to get all 5 gens and 1 or 2 gates up whats the worst possible outcome for a killer in gatekeeping and the best in pipping if 2 survivors die and 2 escape in red ranks for example?
The new version of Gatekeeper is simpler: one point is scored per generator remaining to be repaired per minute for the first nine minutes. At the end of the Trial, if both Exit Gates remain closed, additional points are scored. With less focus on keeping seven generators up...
But I need as many gens up as possible correct for the 1st 9 minutes (isn't that the same?) and my bonus after 5 gens are doing is assuming if both exit gates are closed where in a "balanced" game, 2 survivors should escape and 2 die but a gate has to be open for 2 to leave unless a key gets in the mix.
If you agree with them and think changes made are for the "better health of the game" then im in awe. The total outcry against this (your player base) among other things proves how out of touch they are.
Freddy got a really huge rework which is great, while Legion, Nurse and (apparently Doctor) get a big nerf. Balanced landing was fairly balanced imo, it was slightly better than using sprint burst at the cost of actually needing to fall from somewhere for it to work. Balanced landing is now pointless to use. In all my killer games since it got nerfed the only person ive seen use it was someone who didnt realise it had been nerfed. Im sorry but nerfing a perk so its no longer viable isnt good for the health of the game, for BL and same goes for Ruin.
I play killer and survivor. Im red ranks for both. Red ranked games are so very boring and you know why? Because its so easy to rank up in this game that whenever im a killer im getting put with survivors who tbh should be green ranked, or when im surviving with friends everyone gets out easily with less than 18k BP. They're dull.
Instead of actually addressing issues, devs are continually adding to them. From a neutral standpoint they do seem to favour survivors, probably due to the 4v1 aspect.
I've seen lots say they wont play killer anymore, more will join that when they experience it on te PTB. And i personally know 17 people who have told me they will just stick to SWF now.
I understand its hard to balance the game for everyone, but because newer players cant land hex skill checks? Really? What about the millions of us that had to learn the hard way and are still here? It didnt traumatize us that much and this is a problem of the devs own design. Why on earth was all the perks changed to make every rank do the same thing? Hex:Ruin at rank 1 was fine. It affected 2 people at random. It meant killers had to actually put effort into getting rank 3 and games at lower ranks wernt always constant fights with ruin. Two could do gens, two run round looking.
Everyone should be worried about these changes because killers have stopped playing as much before and waiting times as a survivor was ****** unbearable. Looks like this will be the new norm eh.
Gl to "the health of the game" If you believe devs are doing that im shocked at your ignorance or i can only assume you're a shill. The health of the game is terrible as it is, I dont know how making it worse and slapping players in the face is good for its health. If you want a comparison, use Game Of Thrones. Yes some people saw nothing wrong with it the whole way through but die hards stuck with it even when they saw the quality of story telling was going downhill in the hopes that it got better again and back to the level that made them fall in love with it. Thats why people stick by the game. But push them too far and the player base will decline heavily
You really should only be pipping if you did better than average. I feel that pipping is actually fine for killers, but it's a bit too easy for survivors. When a survivor hits red ranks the difficulty goes up for pipping but that difficulty spike should be at the purple ranks rather than red ranks. If that were to be done we would have pretty accurate ranks and better matchmaking.
nice statistic. too bad it directly contradicts with the one Bhvr themselves gave us in the very update post we are discussing. way to go.
80% of killers at red ranks ARE using ruin. there is a reason for this.
I don't care about the Ruin nerfs, but I care about the idea behind it. Devs are reworking things that are annoying for survivors, such as Doc, Lery's and Ruin, but this leaves killers feeling like they are just being nerfed non stop while survivors aren't being brought down in a similar way.
Survivors complain about seeing Ruin every game, Devs nerf it. Killers are complaining about seeing Adrenaline, Dead Hard, and DS but nothing gets changed for them. Lery's is one of the best killer maps and it gets nerfed, whereas there are maps like Mother's Dwelling and Haddonfield that are terrible for killers but they don't get changed.