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Madness 2 > Madness 3 Now?

LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

So I haven’t been able to try out the PTB yet, so this whole thought is based around the idea that regressing madness can’t drop tiers, as was the case before the rework. If Madness naturally regresses to lower tiers, this doesn’t apply.

Assuming I’m correct about regressing though, it feels to me like Madness 2 is stronger than Madness 3 now, which feels...extremely wrong. My reasoning being snapping out of it is extremely easy now, and snapping out of it moves you all the way back to Madness 1. Many of the extra effects Doctor’s Add Ons give his Madness kick in at Madness 2, so getting survivors to Madness 3 gives them the ability to turn off those effects by snapping out of it, until they’re forced back into Madness 2.

Seems to me that in the average case, it ultimately hurts Doctor to fully utilize his power now. Which is a horrible change, by any means. Killers should not be punished for using their power well. Makes it completely counterintuitive to play them.


  • PistolTimbPistolTimb Member Posts: 1,414

    Oh boy. I really hope some of these changes don't go live. Doc was never good but now it's like they're rubbing salt in the wound.

  • LordRegalLordRegal Member Posts: 1,429

    It just confuses me where the design process faltered to let that be a thing. Part of the value in making Madness 2 be threatening is you couldn’t leave it. Madness 3 was debilitating but removable, Madness 1 doesn’t do much. Being able to remove Madness 2 by getting to Madness 3 and getting a few seconds alone makes Madness 3 an overall detriment to the Doctor. Get them to 2 and don’t shock them again for the best Madness bang for your buck (looking purely at madness, not the other benefits from shocking and whatnot)

  • SnakeSound222SnakeSound222 Member Posts: 4,455

    That’s what it looks like unfortunately. BHVR made some ######### terrible design decisions. However, I’m not a rank 20 Survivor, so what I do know?

  • Alice_pbgAlice_pbg Member Posts: 4,993

    I didn't even think of that...

  • BlightBlight Member Posts: 14

    This is all speculation as I am not playing in the PTB, please let me know if my ideas and assumptions are wrong.

    It's easier to get survivors from madness 1-2 rather then 2-3. This means Doc will be the ultimate counter to immersed survivors. Instead of old Doc taking about 15 seconds to bring someone from 2-3 with his old field he can now make people scream no matter what tier they are at, have a no down required infectious fright, and with 2 blasts increase madness again. Doc is no longer brain dead find survivors, can shock at full speed instead of the heavy decrease to his speed just while walking around in treatment with the added slow of charging for a blast.

    Doc has been less effective ever sense survivors learned to just keep running instead of sitting at a pallet/window spamming the spacebar and just getting hit anyways. Old Doc is too easy to counter. Hear someone go into madness 1 just run into the terror radius and get into madness one yourself and completely counter him being able to find you in 3 seconds once he downs the first survivor. That used to make it take Doc 3 times longer to find you, having to go into madness 2 instead of madness 1. Now you can't force madness 1 to counter Doc and he can always use madness 1 to find survivors after the first down. It takes a lot more time to get survivors from madness 2-3 than from madness 1-2 if using static field to find new survivors once the game has started. Going from 3 to 1 gives Doc an easier time to up madness again and find survivors with his field if the scream doesn't give you everything you need to find the Blendette, and the scream is 360 degrees and without increasing madness you don't get the notification that you get with madness levels, or infectious fright, or that's the impression I get from reading the update notes.

    The pause between shocking someone and hitting is the best I can guess is to emulate the time it used to take to switch stances meaning the time between shock and hit are still the same.

    The change both makes Doc stronger and weaker at the same time. No passive increase means Doc has to actively do something to increase madness but without the counter of everyone running into the field just to get madness 1 over with, making finding new survivors not in the initial blast easier later in the game when you need to find someone new to chase. There is no mention of having to wait between blast and shock so I'm assuming you can use them one after the other with very little down side to Doc and increasing tiers is easier.

    One of the major issues I had with Doc is the feeling that if I weren't in Treatment mode and going at full speed that I would get more hits from just moving faster, and they've addressed that by removing the stances. So if you can get a hit either through the pallet/window you can do that and if not you can shock without the slow and time to switch, and then switch again, taking tons of time. Now you get normal speed with the normal speed decrease from a faster movement rate making it possible to not lose distance from shocking and being better in a position to take advantage of the shock afterwards. You may be giving up passive pressure for being able to end chases quickly again? If so, the passive pressure is easily given up for quicker hooks, more actual pressure, and more kills.

  • AcesthetiicAcesthetiic Member Posts: 1,077

    This is a great point.

  • OogieBoogieOogieBoogie Member Posts: 146

    Yeah this is probably the biggest issue I have with the Doc changes. I like being able to get back to Madness 1, but I think it should require a 2nd Snap Out of It action to do so. Maybe make snapping out from 2>1 take much longer (at least 20s) so while it's something you can do, you're sacrificing time to do so. Being able to go straight back from 3 to 1 in seconds makes madness 3 pretty useless.

    Even worse, they made it so snapping out doesn't reset if you cancel the action, so you're not punished for choosing to attempt it at a bad time/place. On the other hand, searching Jigsaw boxes does reset if you cancel, and that's something that can kill you and you don't have much choice as to when/where to search.

  • cetruzzocetruzzo Member Posts: 323

    Could someone explain to me why is there a 3 seconds pause after shock? What is the supposed function of shock now, only to increase madness? Useless in a chase more than before?

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