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Killer mains suddenly forgot...

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  • Mister_xDMister_xD Member Posts: 7,239

    you missed the point why we are complaining.

    the ruin changes themselves are something very few actually have a problem with.

    instead, we are complaining about them nerfing ruin WITHOUT addressing the problem that ruin was used to "fix" - genrush.

    there is a good reason why >80% of highrank games had ruin in them. sadly, the devs only recognised that ruin was overused, yet they didnt seem to care why it was used this much.

    the perk needed to be changed eventually, but this is just not the right time for it. they should instead have gotten rid of it uppon releasing secondary objectives for survivors to stall games longer.

    current objective times without ruin are a joke - and i highly doubt anyone can deny that.

    they should not nerf ruin, before fixing the survivor objective times.


    also the wording of the dev post set many players off, as that was very survivor biased.

    i am sooo glad that this KILLER perk has benefits for SURVIVORS. nice!

  • terumisanterumisan Member Posts: 1,285

    It's frustrating because it happens a lot I've even done it while faking having ds

  • illusionillusion Member Posts: 869

    The thing is that those survivor perks were adjusted for balance. Some, arguably, adjusted poorly. While they may not be as effective as they used to be, they still work. In fact they are still used by a large portion of survivors.

    Very few people are saying that ruin can't be adjusted, it's they way that it was adjusted that is the problem. Those survivor perks, while less effective, are still completely functional throughout the game. Ruin was nerfed to, supposedly, be a late game perk, while retaining the hex part making it possible to remove the entire perk from the killer within the first minute of the game. It was always an early game perk, at best. The change was poorly thought out. How can it be a late game perk when it isn't there? I don't recall them adding a mechanic to those survivor perks that randomly makes them useless within the first few minutes of the game.

    More importantly, they didn't address the underlying issue that made ruin as popular as it was. That is what is so frustrating to most. No one really liked Ruin, but it is necessary to try to deal with the much bigger problem.

  • ZagridZagrid Member Posts: 999

    The only Survivor perk that ever got Gutted was Mettle of Man. Which was definitely deserved because there was no countering it. You got a free health state for literally just playing like normal. Literally No risk for an insane reward that is why it got gutted.

    Ruin is easily countered by hitting skill checks, finding the totem, or arguably gen tapping.

    There is a high risk with hex perks which should offer a high reward if they are able to stay alive. This new ruin throws all of that out the window with a perk that gives at most a decent reward for a very high risk.

  • S_PandaS_Panda Member Posts: 539

    When you were hit by a killer's basic attack 3 times, it activated for a free hit when injured. Now it requires 3 protection hits which are much harder to get. Imagine every single survivor taking a 7th hit if you're playing "fairly" or a 5th hit if you're downing them injured each time to be fully killed. They nerfed medkits instant-heal addons for this exact reason a few months later. The issue with MoM that makes people 'salty' is that it was on PTB like that, released like that, then nerfed a few weeks later so it's called bait and switch to get money since Ash is only purchasable via cells.

  • S_PandaS_Panda Member Posts: 539

    yeah I honestly can't tell if they're talking about something else or the rework which became a buff to anyone who played killer for a while.

  • Swiftblade131Swiftblade131 Member Posts: 2,026
    edited January 2020

    You mean, they nerfed things that needed to be nerfed? Oh no.........


    I'm down if the DEVs wanted to trash NOED and Moris, but if they are gonna keep the gen speeds the same, then there was no reason to nerf Ruin at all, since it was almost a necessity to band-aid balancing in, which is a DBD classic at this point.


    But if the DEVs wanna get on a high horse and start ruining the game, they can. It is their game after all. But don't complain when it was takes over 10 minutes to get lobbies at any rank.


    No one wants to play a game where they are just gonna get smoked. And also, don't complain about the killers using NOED and Moris, just trying to balance out the game is all. I'm in no way a killer main, nor am I an incompetent player, I don't see why this change was made.


    Rushing gets a NOED smack and Mori now. Not just an easy to break, gen tap, or hit normal skill checks perk :)


    These are the big facts. Take it or leave it.

  • Raven014Raven014 Member Posts: 4,188

    I could point out the prevalence of DS, BT, Adrenaline, And other exhaustion perks (mainly Sprint Burst and Dead Hard)... but others are already saying this for me.

    DS is very easy to abuse still, same with BT.

    Your position really isn't defendable...

  • QuolQuol Member Posts: 694

    Ive come across this argument a few times these past couple days "They nerfed Ruin so they might look into gens speeds now" and its disappointed me every time. Devs havent even mentioned anything about gen speeds so why assume they will do anything? Because you hope they do?

    When something gets nerfed people will get mad and with something so popular as Ruin no matter what they do there will be hate but the flames were blown way out of proportion because they didnt mention anything about why Ruin was so popular.

    On the bright side devs cant pretend they are not biased towards survivor anymore.

  • xBEATDOWNSxxBEATDOWNSx Member Posts: 629

    Old Saboteur was one of the most broken perks ever at launch are you kidding?

    Do you remember the basement camps? I sure as hell do.

  • ToybasherToybasher Member Posts: 903


    IIRC when DS first came out, like when the Halloween Chapter first launched, Decisive Strike worked differently.


    Originally, when a survivor was picked up by a killer, you could do a skillcheck to escape the killer's grasp. Basically a literal second chance perk, since you get a free grasp-escape. I'm not 100% on this but I believe all four survivors could run it at the time, meaning 4 free grasp escapes per match.


    After complaints DS was (In my opinion deservedly) nerfed. DS STILL worked as the old one but only for the obsession. So even if all 4 survivors ran DS, ONLY the obsession would insta-escape. Non-obsessions still got a major advantage by running it since after a certain wiggle bar threshold, (35%) the DS skillcheck would pop up.


    DS was then changed a long while later to the current "Anti-Tunnel" perk it is today.

  • illusionillusion Member Posts: 869

    Yeah. I have been seeing that reasoning a lot. If they were looking into it, they would have mentioned it by now.

    If you understand there is an underlying problem, then you look into that problem and then make adjustments to that. If at that point Ruin needs to be adjusted you can do it and most killers would be ok with it. It seems they don't understand the real problem, or don't care about it. Either way it's a concern. No PvP game lasts if they can't get balance done correctly.

  • ToybasherToybasher Member Posts: 903


    I assume devs will look into it since they DO keep track of stuff like kill rate, perk usage, SWF vs solo, etc.

    If the ruin changes result in high rank games lasting like 4 minutes tops consistently and kill rate dropping, killer diversity lowering even more, etc. they will probably look into it.


    Devs stated Ruin's nerfed BECAUSE it's being used in 80% of red rank matches. Why is it being used so much? Because generator times are very fast without it and you need to gamble on ruin to play anyone not Nurse, Billy, and Spirit.


    Ruin's literally a band-aid perk for gen times. Rip it off, survivors rush through generators in 3 minutes practically every game at high ranks, expose the real problem so it can be looked at.


    I imagine within a few months the devs will consider adding a secondary objective (Finding generator parts so you can start repairs on a gen, maybe a fuse for a breaker box to transfer generator power to the exit gate switch, more reasons to do dull totems, etc.) or lengthening generator times.

    I'd rather get the former because flat out "Survivors gotta hold M1 for longer" is boring and the devs said IIRC they didn't want to increase generator times any more a year or two ago when healing speed was nerfed.

  • S_PandaS_Panda Member Posts: 539

    Yeah if people are talking about that initial-release DS nerf then yeah it's a nerf, and even back then matches some of the things BHVR has been trying to reduce/get rid of: MoM's nerf, insta heals and so on giving third/fourth chances in a single chase. That DS would be an instant second chance unless the killer was right next to the hook and/or no one body blocked the hook...Which I bet would be common play back then.

    Today's is a buff from that second iteration: before it I would see maybe 1-2 DS's equipper per match - Survivors would rather not run it and risk having a useless perk since the struggle had a minimum to hit + the skill check once you finally reach that point. Then when you had an obsession without an obsession perk yourself...dribble the obsession or slug it (much like today's slugging of any unhooked player when there's an obsession...oh but they're in a locker)

  • RattmanRattman Member Posts: 1,194

    They nerfed his ability to flick with turns. On current PTB they reverted this change to certain degree, I think.

  • JOBreazyJOBreazy Member Posts: 128

    lmao and yet here you are crying about me giving my opinion,

    i guess if someone doesnt agree with you then they are wrong and they are the problem. And fyi im a rank 1 survivor and killer lmao, its ok to keep your salty attitude on these forums

  • Hex_KillerMainBTWHex_KillerMainBTW Member Posts: 447

    So, having perks that remain permanent is a valid argument? Balanced landing was heavily abused. Old self care you could basically heal yourself faster than a killer could hit you a second time. Mettle of men was complete bs in its original state.

    Have you stopped to consider that these perks STAY with the survivor in the entire game while ruin is a totem perk. It can literally be taken out of the game in the first 20 seconds. If it wasn't a totem perk, i could see it needing to be changed/nerf. But it's still a totem perk. Maybe they should just remove it as a totem perk so people can't be overly pissed about it.

    The only reason they're changing it is to cater to new players, that's fine I can get behind that. But how ruin is now, should be changed to a normal perk. It really just goes to show how some of the best early game anti-gen perks won't stay the entire match. Corrupt intervention as well as ruin.

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