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RUIN + GEN SPEED // Adressing the elephant in the room
Atchoo
Member Posts: 325
Right now there is a big discussion about the upcoming change of Ruin and this goes hand in hand with the current debate about the gen speed/match length. I think this discussion is necessary but I think most discussions neglect there are way more problems which influence the current discussions which lead to survivor biased or killer biased argumentations or toxic behavior.
Those are the problems and connections I see right now. I do not claim this is correct nor do I think its a full list of problems which have a direct or indirect impact on the current debate about Ruin and Gen speed.
What do you think about these problems? Do you have an idea how the devs could adress these problems better than they do right now?
I think changing Ruin or the gen speed alone wont lead to a more balanced game.
Comments
I tested the combination of Better together and Prove thyself as a solo survivor on rank 1. Not a single killer got a kill within 10 games and none of the games was longer than 6 or at max 7 minutes. Come on, dont tell me gen speed isnt a problem. ^^
The elephant in the room is the fact that as a survivor it takes twice as long to find a game as it does to play one
No, this is the result of the problems above. Why do you think survivors on certain ranks have to wait this long? I think its pretty obvious.
@Atchoo
I think that has to do with the Matchmaking System, not Ruin or Gen Speeds.
I mentioned the matchmaking system aswell. It is of course also part of this issue. But its definitely not the main nor the only reason.
@Atchoo I just don’t see how current or future Ruin is impacting the ability to get in a match.
At best the only thing I can assume from your graph is that killers affected by gen speed cannot proceed to rank up, which if that’s the case it’s a totally absurd statement.
Im not saying there is no point where you can get gen rushed, but I don’t personally find this to be a reason to not be able to find a match. It has to do with the game not wanting to pair me up with someone below my rank until it really has to.
I did not say Ruin is the reason why it takes so long to get a lobby. Im pretty sure its a mixture of all those points above which currently lead to an imbalance (at least in red ranks).
You are fighting a losing battle I agree with you but fact is devs are only concerned about the brain dead weak low rank survivors, instead of creating a challenging game they are more worried about making it fun and easy for noobs
I kinda feel the same. Thats why I opened this discussion, I just wanted to show there are way more issues the devs have to take in consideration.
Nice picture you got there :F
Honestly gen speeds would solve most of those problems. The easiest way to solve this, in my opinion at least. Is require survivors to find something before they can start repairing gens. Like a tool belt or something. This would make sense. As how are you fixing gens without tools? It would also give survivors something to do. While giving the killers time to setup/get going.
Yes, thats what i meant with lack of objectives. I dont blame survivors for doing their objective. I mean if the killer does not chase them, why should they refuse to work on gens?
Go up against some rank 1-2 killers playing meta builds on killers like freddy or spirit, and you will be wishing you could rush the gens even faster.
Most killers who complain about gen rushing are just focusing one guy the entire match instead of spreading the damage, which is how you should be playing.
This is what gen rushing actually is, by the way:
Unless the survivors you are facing are rocking a build like this, you are probably just not applying enough pressure.
@Apple2o Dont even start with the "nOt EnOuGh PrEsSuRe" argument. It's been debunked countless times and is an extremely weak claim
The devs gotta be aware only "pressure" can be applied with high mobility killers
A good killer is going to be dropping survivors left and right. Either by playing someone overpowered, or by actually using a good build on a regular killer.
Half the people complaining here are probably just tunneling some guy through god windows with an M1 killer, not knowing you could/should be running perks to cover those kinds of weaknesses.
The last 5-6 purple rank killers I faced all just tried to down me no matter the cost, even though I was prepared and in an extremely strong position. It usually costed them multiple generators to get a down. The last few red rank killers I faced all dropped those kinds of chases with 10-20 seconds and found better ones. Notice a pattern?
I wont support one side more than another. I love to play killer and survivor. Thats why I tried to summarize as many issues as possible.
Regarding the argument of map pressure: This simply does not work for all killers. Hillybilly, Freddy, Oni.. are killers who can apply map pressure. But if you get large maps as Trapper, Ghostface, Leatherface etc. its almost impossible to apply pressure on all survivors at once.
Dont get me wrong map pressure is an important point.
the pattern is that a killer is able to a̷̢̛̟ṕ̶͕͆p̵̹̍̊l̶͚̓͝y̶̙̋̔ ̵̤͒p̵̙̓͗ŗ̵͂e̶͈̚s̷̲̈͊s̴̝̗̀û̴̳̼͂r̵͎̓e when survivors unable to properly loop exist, otherwise you'll just drop chase after chase.
The other solution is properly balanced maps, not too big, not too many safe pallets, not too many connected loops.
Im a rank 1 killer myself with 7000 hours. I know how to play killer efficiently. I dont have problems to kill people but depending on the variables above it is simply not possible to play a decent and fun match for all without frustrating survivors.
And if you face 4 very good survivors on a map with good spawns, you wont have the chance to protect gens and kill survivors as killer without mobility.
You brought up another important point: Map layout.
Thanks for the input!
Yes, if you face a decent group which knows how to loop efficiently, it will become pretty tough for killers. A coordinated group will finish gens no matter how you chase them.
Kept this screenshot around to show...some ppl DO bring stuff like that. This was the morning before the BL change and these guys brought me to Haddonfield, lol.
Except there are a wealth of killers who just straight up ignore looping for the most part. You can also just use bamboozle or spirit fury and looping nearly ceases to exist.
I can't remember the last time anyone was able to run me for any significant amount of time as a bamboozle brutal strength clown. Maybe someone humping the god windows on disturbed ward?
Half the time they get greedy for extra loops and punished by bamboozle incredibly hard, especially at loops like cow tree or the ironworks of misery god-window where they get boxed in by it.
You can quickly carve out some dead zones and just protect the gens near those. If you know you are going to be running into a 4 man on comms just use the killers best add-ons or a mori. Pretty simple.
I also don't know why you care about survivors having fun. It's not your job to make it a fun game, it's your job to kill them. Maybe you are a nice person, but DBD is not a nice game.
You think some teabagging SWF with purple flashlights and OoO is out there for you to have fun?
Needs streetwise.
If one side consistently does not have fun they will stop playing this side or at all. So yes, I do care about the fun of the game. This does not mean I have to give people the hatch etc. All I meant was I do not want to play nor verse a camping/slugging/tunneling high tier killer with ebony mori most of the games.
No matter how good you are as a killer, and no matter how often they nerf perks or something without fixing the bigger issue (map sizes, gen speeds) you'll always just be called a crying baby which is odd to me.
Survivors, most not all, know how unbalanced the game is for killers. They claim that its balanced and fair as it is. When they know its not. Huge maps, fast gen speeds, and certain killers lack of map pressure. They shouldn't have touched ruin or any type of slow down perk until they addressed the gen speed issue. Preferably fixing ruin and gen speed within the same patch so it'd be fair to both sides. "Oh just run "CI" its better anyway" if its better anyway and we all ruin CI guess what? it'll be nerfed because its "over used and survivors aren't have any fun with it" Which brings up another point for me, why are killers calling other killer mains babies or whatever because they run ruin?
"Oh i'm better than you because i don't use ruin its worthless anyway" okay, want a cookie? Some killers need it more than others. "I use Nurse or Hillbilly so ruin is useless" tell that to clown or trapper players.
I've been very vocal lately and ima keep being vocal about it cuz the devs treatment to make the game fair is ridiculous. Survivors get nerfed but killers get butchered and still have no response on gen speed or unfair map layouts. I don't hate the new ruin, to me the new ruin's only flaw is the totem. Get rid of the hex perk and make it just a regular perk.
Thank you for your input. I can totally understadnd why you feel this way. All those things you mentioned are responsible for a balance issue. I see it the same.
But in my opinion survivors and killers do have problems due to all those issues mentioned above. The devs really have to work on multiple things. Working on Ruin first might be a bad decision (at least thats what I think) but I am pretty sure they will see the consequences.
I wouldn't call it a discussion when it's the developers outright lying about why it was gutted
This post has been opened with the intention to point out balance difficulties and to start a civil discussion about changes and possible solutions. Accusing the developers for "lying" does not contribute to the discussion.
You are welcome to suggest a solution.
The only viable solution is to scrap this gut and go to the drawing board